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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbikerdude37 View Post
    Those inserts are damn good, used lots of them on parts like cat bulldozer parts.

    As far as aluminum parts heli coils work, If I have to use them in an aluminum engine head that thing is going to be sold and wont be my problem any more.

    The concept of some coil of wire to thread a hole just seems wrong to me. After finding out how much they are used in aircraft I wont ever fly again. 4 wheels on the ground works for me and If I go over seas i will be in a boat.

    I'll race you there.....in a plane!!!!
    Statistics show that planes move more people, safer than any other means?!!

    Heli-Coils aren't any stronger than then the amount of material they are engaged in, to an extent. The heli-coil is engaged slightly more than the original thread size if that make sense, and offers more strength in an aluminum workpiece. It is used as a repair and will likely work longer than the original thread did, unless of course the same F-tard trys to tighten that spark plug again????
    I have gotten many an aerospace and or aircraft component made of aluminum, and it is nearly Mandatory for all of these parts to have a heli-coil.
    Keen-inserts are a big one too, but more in the electrical components used in aerospace, from my experience.

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  3. #42
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    I'm assuming your molds are aluminum? Blow mold, prototype or plastic injection? I've seen aluminum used and then a hard coating put over the cavities to give it some wear resistance depending on the plastic used. Formed threads whether internal or external are stronger, but with aluminum you're not getting the same results compared to steel. Formed Steel produces more strength than formed aluminum, on an apples to apples comparison.
    Form tapping any material is far superior when you have a blind hole, especially in a tough material.....no chips to re-cut.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by john-san View Post
    I'm assuming your molds are aluminum? Blow mold, prototype or plastic injection? I've seen aluminum used and then a hard coating put over the cavities to give it some wear resistance depending on the plastic used. Formed threads whether internal or external are stronger, but with aluminum you're not getting the same results compared to steel. Formed Steel produces more strength than formed aluminum, on an apples to apples comparison.
    Form tapping any material is far superior when you have a blind hole, especially in a tough material.....no chips to re-cut.

    You realize this thread is 7 years old, right?

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  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    You realize this thread is 7 years old, right?
    I actually like having (relevant) information added to an old thread, as it keeps good information in one place, and brings the thread back to the home page where I'm more likely to notice it.

    Hmm, "brings the thread back" - why, john-san just "heli-coiled" this thread!

  7. #45
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    And like post #7, when I was making satellite packages and buses, I also used heli-coils or similar rather than keenserts. HC's are lighter, take less space, and have a very hard/smooth surface (from the cold forming)for the screw to bear against, which allows for more repeatable torque-to-clamp-force values.

    And the slightly elastic nature of the individual windings of the coil allows for a more uniform loading along the screw length, as opposed to solid thread mates where the first thread pitch take the majority of the load.

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  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbikerdude37 View Post
    Im not a fan of helicoils, they might be big in aircraft but in the tractor industry I will not go there. I can do better.
    Helicoils are tricky to us. I've installed a few in Harley-Davidson bikes here and there, but I wouldn't use one where heat is involved.

    I've used Tine-Serts for thread repairs in Aluminum motorcycle cylinder heads and they work very well.

  10. #47
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    So, now we have references to "Tine-Serts" and "keyserts". I don't recall seeing helicoil mispelled. I see a correlation between education and bias against Helicoils here.

  11. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    So, now we have references to "Tine-Serts" and "keyserts". I don't recall seeing helicoil mispelled. I see a correlation between education and bias against Helicoils here.
    On the web you can find it both ways, but Stanley (the manufacturer) calls them Heli-Coils. So what's worse, not capitalizing the leading letter, or misspelling the name itself by leaving out the hyphen?

  12. #49
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    When I was going to college, a fellow student decided to test the strength of Helicoils in aluminum vs regular tapped holes. He also tested keen-serts and some different Loctite compounds. He drilled and tapped a large block of aluminum for all the different configurations and then put it in a yield testing machine which pulled the bolt out and measured the force required to do so. I can’t remember the resulting force requirements, but the Helicoils did amazingly well and outperformed all but the keen-serts.

  13. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Garner View Post
    Matt --

    I see you've let one of Northwestern Tool's Re-Nu-Thread inserts sneak into the picture along with a key-locking insert. I'd be interested in hearing you opinion of the Re-Nu-Thread inserts . . . only used 'em once, and they worked ok . . . but their first-cousin EZ-Lok inserts, which are held in place by encapsulated anaerobic adhesive (which needs time to cure) don't nag at the back of my mind like the nylon-pellet retainer does.

    John
    Hmmm missed this 7 years ago John.

    I'd used the adhesive ones before & they worked pretty much the same as the Re-Nu plug, that being good. About everybody's inserts did what the said they'd do.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Garner View Post
    willbird --

    If a wound-wire insert does need to be removed, "grabbing and pulling" is a marvelous way to destroy the STI-tapped hole in the part, especially if the part is soft. Unscrewing the wound-wire insert from its hole is a MUCH better way to remove it.

    If the insert is Tangless, the easiest and best way to remove it is with the Kato insert-removal tool, but that tool is very pricey. Lower-buck alternatives, which will also remove conventional tang-type wound-wire inserts, include the "chisel-edge wedge" extractors most of the insert makers offer, homemade versions of the same tool, and some broken-screw extractors.

    If the insert is big enough that a pair of locking pliers can grab the wire, unscrewing the insert becomes trivial because the twisting inherent in the unscrewing reduces the diameter of the wound-wire coil.

    John
    I was to the point (many hundreds) of removing the wire wound inserts in CI vibrator swivel brackets that it was near as quick as the extraction tool (tangs were removed after insertion). I'd pull a draw file over the first thread @ about 1/3rd the way from the end, insert a bent pick under the end & bend it up. Then just unscrew the thing with needle nose pliers shoved in the insert.

    They were used for economy (buy 500 for like 50-60 cents each) and they'd survive in an awful environment (RR track tamping machines). To put things in perspective nobody I ever knew could bore and bush any type of hole around those vibrators & get them to stay good for very long at all.

    That Kato tool is cool though!

    Matt


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