What's new
What's new

Motor upgrade for lathe

Jeremy16

Plastic
Joined
Sep 8, 2020
I recently picked up a edelstaal prn-12 1/2 metal lathe and it seems to be underpowered.

What runs it is a general electric 1.5 hp 3 ph motor. I have a baldor 3hp 3ph sitting on the shelf and I'm curious if it would be a good fit.

Does anyone have any experience doing this?
 
I recently picked up a edelstaal prn-12 1/2 metal lathe and it seems to be underpowered.

What runs it is a general electric 1.5 hp 3 ph motor. I have a baldor 3hp 3ph sitting on the shelf and I'm curious if it would be a good fit.

Does anyone have any experience doing this?

Not sure it is a good idea. Not much of a lathe. I'd call it OVER powered already. 3/4 HP more in keeping with its underwhelming carcass. 3 HP might just break more unobtanium stuff worser and sooner?

Here's some chat about the lathe(s).

Edelstaal Lathe, anyone have info on them?
 
i dont see why not. put the bigger motor in there with a vfd and youll be happy.
 
What runs it is a general electric 1.5 hp 3 ph motor. I have a baldor 3hp 3ph sitting on the shelf and I'm curious if it would be a good fit.

Does anyone have any experience doing this?

-Yes, and I recommend it. The only potential issue that I see is you might need a larger VFD.

Keep in mind that Thermite is one of those types that if the machine doesn't weigh at least six tons and you have to remove chips with a grain shovel, it's not a "real" machine. Ignore him, most of us do. :D

Regardless of the parentage of that machine, it's easily beefy enough to take a 3HP motor, and if you already have the motor, so much the better.

Doc.
 
-Yes, and I recommend it. The only potential issue that I see is you might need a larger VFD.

Keep in mind that Thermite is one of those types that if the machine doesn't weigh at least six tons and you have to remove chips with a grain shovel, it's not a "real" machine. Ignore him, most of us do. :D

Regardless of the parentage of that machine, it's easily beefy enough to take a 3HP motor, and if you already have the motor, so much the better.

Doc.

Pphtt... "ignore" at the expense of avoidable holes in your bank account if you are feeling so overly rich.

"Beefy" my ass. Another amateur Ingineer weighs in.

Better look again. Closer.

Overpower that lasagna-noodle two-to ONE over factory OEM (they KNEW what they had .... and what they did NOT have..) and it will be the remains of its gearing and compound rest hitting the grain shovel. Planting bustid gears in the back garden won't grow new gears, either.

A basic white-bread Logan, Rockwell, Standard-Modern, or trade-school-trainer Colchester is stronger built.

Why TF do yah suppose they are as common as housefly poop and this critter is so rare? "Commercial success" in the market, or NOT so successful come to mind?

Check the carriage width - or the lack of same - just for openers.

Don't confuse it with a Hwacheon nor a LeBlond Regal just because it has a lot of rectangular shapes to it.

3 HP don't sound like MUCH. But it is DOUBLE what this puppy was borned with.
Same-same RPM, that means double the torque.

Whom d'you suppose made the gears, out of what alloy, and with what heat-treat?

Might it be "Tight, Low Ball, Budget & Company"? They surely sell a lot of cheap stuff to OEM's.

Damned shame their replacement parts have to be made by hand outta locally-sourced unobtanium.

:(

Folks who drop big-block V8's into Honda Civic chassis to make "funny cars" do NOT retain the OEM 4-banger's transmission & differential, do they?

:D
 
Jeremy

What makes you think yours is underpowered? does it bog down with the cuts you want to make?

I am running a 16" LeBlond heavy duty lathe with a 5HP motor (static converter so it will make about 3 HP) and no matter how much I push it with heavy cuts and big feeds it never bogs down.

CarlBoyd
 
Pphtt... "ignore" at the expense of avoidable holes in your bank account if you are feeling so overly rich.

"Beefy" my ass. Another amateur Ingineer weighs in.

Better look again. Closer.

Overpower that lasagna-noodle two-to ONE over factory OEM (they KNEW what they had .... and what they did NOT have..) and it will be the remains of its gearing and compound rest hitting the grain shovel. Planting bustid gears in the back garden won't grow new gears, either.

A basic white-bread Logan, Rockwell, Standard-Modern, or trade-school-trainer Colchester is stronger built.

Why TF do yah suppose they are as common as housefly poop and this critter is so rare? "Commercial success" in the market, or NOT so successful come to mind?

Check the carriage width - or the lack of same - just for openers.

Don't confuse it with a Hwacheon nor a LeBlond Regal just because it has a lot of rectangular shapes to it.

3 HP don't sound like MUCH. But it is DOUBLE what this puppy was borned with.
Same-same RPM, that means double the torque.

Whom d'you suppose made the gears, out of what alloy, and with what heat-treat?

Might it be "Tight, Low Ball, Budget & Company"? They surely sell a lot of cheap stuff to OEM's.

Damned shame their replacement parts have to be made by hand outta locally-sourced unobtanium.

:(

Folks who drop big-block V8's into Honda Civic chassis to make "funny cars" do NOT retain the OEM 4-banger's transmission & differential, do they?

:D

Thanks, I appreciate the response.
I'm sure you are right and it is a bad idea. Which i already knew but figured I'd ask.
 
Thanks, I appreciate the response.
I'm sure you are right and it is a bad idea. Which i already knew but figured I'd ask.

Aside from the gears being where one has to pull covers, the dead give-way to spot HEAVY lathes vs light really IS width of carriage and it's "wings".

WIDE carriages have immensely greater surface bearing area, most especially when the bed is wide and the vees are larger as well. Those wear at a TINY fraction of narrow ones, resist a tool-tip deflecting, digging-in, crashing under heavy torque, in favour of smooth, rigid cuts and nicer surface finishes even when ripping heavy chip.

Skinny carriage lets the maker get longer travel onto a shorter bed, but wears faster, so is out-of-spec SOONER, and is too easily deflected, even brand-new hence cannot stand as much power applied. One can still make nice parts, as with even a lowly SB nine. But yah have to take more cuts and lighter to get there.

No fear. Yah just DO that.

"Run what yah got".

For future "run what you WISH you got.."

Look at ANY of the "Grand Old" lathes all the way back to War One.

All of them have wide/long carriages. That - and decent spindle bearings, is how and why they survived to be classed AS "grand-old" when lesser lathes were born, worn, died, were scrapped, one generation after another.

The 10EE? Doc can go measure his ones. 20 inch long-axis traverse.

But the 10EE carriage is wider than 20 inches!

Even 80 years in and NOT EVEN yet refurbished.. they can still make good parts with 4 and 5 HP taking a serious cut.

Your lathe is closer in design to the generic mainland Chinese ones, not-even "generic Taiwanese" units.

See "Precision Matthews". Tall, skinny TS & HS. SHORT / narrow carriage.

Compare it with an ancient Hendey "tie bar" cone-head.

Mass is not the only determinant.

Yah have to put the Iron in the right PLACES.

Cazeneuve actually did that better than Monarch. Not hard. They started later, when more was known, already.

They got 7 HP and easily as good a rigidity if not BETTER, and nominal 14" X 30" (16" clear) into right about 50 to a 100 lbs less avoir than a 10EE with 3 to 5 HP and nominally 10" (12 1/2" clear) X 20" c-to-c.

Not "six tons", either, BTW.

Ton and a half. Right close to 3250 avoir for a 10EE, around 3100 for the cast-not-weldment base generation one HBX-360-BC. Still around. They just got a brain added-on:

CAZENEUVE - Optica Siemens English - YouTube

Your one will not be blow-away-light, but... it was built to a different market segment with a different set of priorities. It is what it is,
 
Don't use carbide in that machine unless you are working something so hard you have no choice. The combination of low hp, high rpm and carbide cutter that relys on brute force to move metal just gobbles up what little power a benchtop lathe can provide. Switch to hand ground, high positive rake HSS tooling. The high rake greatly reduces required power, as it is slicing off material instead of sort of bulldozing it. Lower rpms means more torque multiplication, which makes a lot more power available from the motor for a given diameter. Horsepower is a function of time. Unless you are in a production situation (and that seems extremely unlikely, given the machine), you can sacrifice some time.

On the "unmentionable" 12x36 at the chrome shop, I was running .100 depth of cut, .020 feed at around 100rpm with 1.5 Chinese hp. With carbide, I could only run .030 depth, and .010 feed at 200rpm without stalling it. Although I halved the spindle speed, actual metal removal rate was much higher with HSS.
 
I recently picked up a edelstaal prn-12 1/2 metal lathe and it seems to be underpowered.

What runs it is a general electric 1.5 hp 3 ph motor. I have a baldor 3hp 3ph sitting on the shelf and I'm curious if it would be a good fit.

Does anyone have any experience doing this?

Yes. 3hp will do nicely. On small machines it's wise to keep belts slightly slack. Harrison and Colchesters of that size came with 1.5/2 and 3hp motors. If the ways are good you have a nice machine there. Congrats !
 
Pphtt... "ignore" at the expense of avoidable holes in your bank account if you are feeling so overly rich.

"Beefy" my ass. Another amateur Ingineer weighs in.

Better look again. Closer.

Overpower that lasagna-noodle two-to ONE over factory OEM (they KNEW what they had .... and what they did NOT have..) and it will be the remains of its gearing and compound rest hitting the grain shovel. Planting bustid gears in the back garden won't grow new gears, either.

A basic white-bread Logan, Rockwell, Standard-Modern, or trade-school-trainer Colchester is stronger built.

Why TF do yah suppose they are as common as housefly poop and this critter is so rare? "Commercial success" in the market, or NOT so successful come to mind?

Check the carriage width - or the lack of same - just for openers.

Don't confuse it with a Hwacheon nor a LeBlond Regal just because it has a lot of rectangular shapes to it.

3 HP don't sound like MUCH. But it is DOUBLE what this puppy was borned with.
Same-same RPM, that means double the torque.

Whom d'you suppose made the gears, out of what alloy, and with what heat-treat?

Might it be "Tight, Low Ball, Budget & Company"? They surely sell a lot of cheap stuff to OEM's.

Damned shame their replacement parts have to be made by hand outta locally-sourced unobtanium.

:(

Folks who drop big-block V8's into Honda Civic chassis to make "funny cars" do NOT retain the OEM 4-banger's transmission & differential, do they?

:D

You have ZERO idea what you're talking about. Best, "gordon". Either give a piece of decent and competent advice or move on. You're just ranting unspecific nonsense. Best, "gordon".
 
Aside from the gears being where one has to pull covers, the dead give-way to spot HEAVY lathes vs light really IS width of carriage and it's "wings".

WIDE carriages have immensely greater surface bearing area, most especially when the bed is wide and the vees are larger as well. Those wear at a TINY fraction of narrow ones, resist a tool-tip deflecting, digging-in, crashing under heavy torque, in favour of smooth, rigid cuts and nicer surface finishes even when ripping heavy chip.

Skinny carriage lets the maker get longer travel onto a shorter bed, but wears faster, so is out-of-spec SOONER, and is too easily deflected, even brand-new hence cannot stand as much power applied. One can still make nice parts, as with even a lowly SB nine. But yah have to take more cuts and lighter to get there.

No fear. Yah just DO that.

"Run what yah got".

For future "run what you WISH you got.."

Look at ANY of the "Grand Old" lathes all the way back to War One.

All of them have wide/long carriages. That - and decent spindle bearings, is how and why they survived to be classed AS "grand-old" when lesser lathes were born, worn, died, were scrapped, one generation after another.

The 10EE? Doc can go measure his ones. 20 inch long-axis traverse.

But the 10EE carriage is wider than 20 inches!

Even 80 years in and NOT EVEN yet refurbished.. they can still make good parts with 4 and 5 HP taking a serious cut.

Your lathe is closer in design to the generic mainland Chinese ones, not-even "generic Taiwanese" units.

See "Precision Matthews". Tall, skinny TS & HS. SHORT / narrow carriage.

Compare it with an ancient Hendey "tie bar" cone-head.

Mass is not the only determinant.

Yah have to put the Iron in the right PLACES.

Cazeneuve actually did that better than Monarch. Not hard. They started later, when more was known, already.

They got 7 HP and easily as good a rigidity if not BETTER, and nominal 14" X 30" (16" clear) into right about 50 to a 100 lbs less avoir than a 10EE with 3 to 5 HP and nominally 10" (12 1/2" clear) X 20" c-to-c.

Not "six tons", either, BTW.

Ton and a half. Right close to 3250 avoir for a 10EE, around 3100 for the cast-not-weldment base generation one HBX-360-BC. Still around. They just got a brain added-on:

CAZENEUVE - Optica Siemens English - YouTube

Your one will not be blow-away-light, but... it was built to a different market segment with a different set of priorities. It is what it is,

Cazeneuve lathes are SHIT. Absolute rubbish. And they were made by commies in .... Bulgaria. Everybody knows best lathes are Monarch and Rivett and one or two GERMAN machines. You know nothing. Best, "gordon".
 
For all his drivel, he DID serve in Vietnam against the Commies.

In that case he deserves a bit more respect than all that IMO.


(Do you have socialists in Namibia?)

Well, killing peasants under a false pretext is something one should be proud off. Best, "gordon".
 








 
Back
Top