To Move...or to Downsize?

Hello all,

I have a bit of a dilemma...

I am relocating to a new home we're going to have built, in another location about 100 miles from my current home/shop. Right now I have a detached 20x32' shop, but I am strongly considering just going with a basement shop in the new home. The way the new floor plan is laid out, I could have almost as much floor area for a new shop in the basement, as I have now in my detached garage/shop. So that leaves me with an interesting decision.

About two years ago I purchased a re-built Bridgeport J-head mill from TAS Iron in Ohio. It's an awesome mill, but I haven't used it a lot yet. Other things have gotten in the way, and hopefully those are behind me. In addition to the base machine, there's a non-BP servo on the X-axis, an import DRO and a one-shot oiler. I also installed a quick-change system from Mach-1. So the mill is all ready to go. So I'm strongly considering whether or not to just disassemble the one I have now so I can move it to the new house and get it downstairs in the basement, versus selling it outright and buying something like a bench-top mill from Precision Matthews. I'm leaning towards keeping the one I have--but I'm looking for a bit of a sanity check: How difficult are those things to disassemble & reassemble?

I've watched a ton of videos on this subject on YouTube and seen mrpete222's stuff in particular, but I've never done this sort of thing myself. We've configured the floor plan of the new house so that there's an entry into the basement shop from a set of stairs leading straight down from the garage--and the stair entry is directly out the side wall of the garage. In other words, no corners to navigate. The shop area downstairs would be about 29' long by 19' wide, and I have a lot of room...as I could even steal another 50-75 sq ft for "storage" in the shop area. There's a raw storage area adjacent to my new shop area, and this can easily give up 75 sq ft or so--so my shop wouldn't have to be cluttered. The ceiling height will only be about 8' though, so that is a consideration--but I wasn't planning on having a ceiling right away, and thus the head of the mill could go under a space between two joists.

So I'd really appreciate some input on what you guys would do: Keep the excellent mill I already have, but go through the difficult process of dis-/re-assembling it...or sell it and buy something that is more "modular" like a bench top mill from PM? I really hate to think of having to buy a new mill and getting that re-configured similar to what I have now, but the added benefit to something like a PM mill is that I could go with a single-phase 220v motor, whereas now I use a VFD. I already have the VFD all set upnow, and the electrical supply from the service panel is essentially the same, so maybe that's not such a big issue.

One last thing: The main electrical service panel to the house is a 200-amp SquareD panel, and it's located right in my shop. So other than losing a bit of wall space for the panel itself, it should be most convenient when it comes to needing to add additional circuits for the shop.

Incidentally, I have a 13" SBL and a 10K SBL as well, and am planning to just move the 10K down into the new shop. I'll likely just sell the 13" lathe as I don't really use it much anyway. I primarily want to make model engine stuff, so the 13" lathe isn't really something I need to use much--and in fact it seems like that lathe would be much more difficult to move down into the new shop. Then again, I have been thinking about "painting" the thing...lol.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts & opinions!

TB

I can tell you just to start that if you get rid of the mill and buy a cheap import made from sheet metal to replace it, you will be kicking yourself forever for not taking on a little extra work one time.

Agreed. That's definitely a consideration--and I should have mentioned that, so thanks for pointing it out.

TB

If you're building from the ground up, why not go for a 4+ car garage? Is the new house in the city on a small lot?

Not sure of your age but as the years go by you are going to wish your shop has level entry.

Nope...it's (sort of) in the country, but it is on a lot. We actually bought an extra lot as well because it's sort of a wacky lay-out, and if someone else bought that other lot their house would be almost right on the edge of the 10-foot buffer on the lot line. The floor plan my wife loves isn't one that easily lends itself to a 4-car garage, so that's why I had the thought to build a basement shop. I could actually just have them build a detached 24x24' shop as well. It would add $20K to the project to erect the shell, and then another $10-12K to finish/insulate/heat/cool it. I was just trying to cut costs a bit by going with a basement shop, as I think I would likely use it more if it was just in the basement. I'm not doing heavy machining by any means, so it's more of a "hobby" shop truth be told. So in all honesty the basement shop idea was as much about controlling costs as much as anything. While I certainly have the room to put up another detached shop, I'm just not sure I can justify the cost right now...especially given what the rest of the project is going to cost.

TB

Dualkit said:

Not sure of your age but as the years go by you are going to wish your shop has level entry.

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I've thought of that too, yeah. I'm 54 yo in a month, but have the knees of a 75 yo. But I have an electronics shop in my current basement, and I go down there all the time.

But you do raise a very good point--and as I mentioned in another post, I could just go with another detached shop. I already have the pricing on the shell. But that will only add to the price, while the basement shop really doesn't cost a whole lot extra.

TB

I'd go with a detached shop every time. There is too much smoke, fire, noise, oil, and crud like grinding dust, swarf etc. to be connected to the house. If you can, build with a ceiling height of at least 10'. Give your wife a break and yourself peace of mind!

When you build the house, pay the little bit extra to get a deeper basement. One or two blocks (if it's block construction) isn't that expensive. Then, make a bump out on the foundation that will take a Bilco style door and install removable steps. For one or two machines, hire a wrecker to come in and lower the machine into the bump and then move it into the basement. Or have a lift frame installed on the foundation. That will probably require filled blocks on the bump out.

The people who built my house put a crawl space under the family room. I curse the decision every day in my cramped shop.

wheels17 said:

When you build the house, pay the little bit extra to get a deeper basement. One or two blocks (if it's block construction) isn't that expensive. Then, make a bump out on the foundation that will take a Bilco style door and install removable steps. For one or two machines, hire a wrecker to come in and lower the machine into the bump and then move it into the basement. Or have a lift frame installed on the foundation. That will probably require filled blocks on the bump out.

The people who built my house put a crawl space under the family room. I curse the decision every day in my cramped shop.

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Great advice, and I definitely plan to talk to the contractor about just that question. It will be a poured (not block) foundation, but I don't know if they use some "stock" 8' forms or not? So there might be significant cost in going even 6" taller on the side walls. I'll just have to ask.

Great posts by you guys--thanks again. But let's assume that I don't go with a detached shop, and that I need to get a mill downstairs. As mentioned in the initial post...which way would you guys go on the mill? Maybe it's a no-brainer like BoxcarPete implied, and I'm just over-thinking it: Maybe the obvious answer is to simply keep the BP mill, disassemble it, and move it down. Maybe it's that obvious and no one has really seen fit to argue anything else?

Thanks again.

TB

No one on this forum will argue going from a nice BP mill that you already have to something less. Most of the people here think the BP as the lowliest machine to own. Given that you already have the mill, I'd kind of agree, but I have a lowlier unmentionable mill because of a basement/hobby shop and the potential to move again sometime soon, and I really enjoy it for hobby use. If you're moving to your forever home and already have your forever mill, it does seem a shame not to just move it the 100 miles and figure out how to get it into the basement.

Any concrete company will be able to do 9' basement walls for a couple thousand, if you even need that for your mill. There are other reasons to do it too. In WI in new construction I'd also make sure the basement walls are insulated somehow. This will give you a heated shop, all for significantly less than a separate building.

If your land has any slope to it I'd try to make it a daylight/walkout basement, even if it's just small dug out area. If that's not possible, you'll very likely have some basement access involving a bump out in the foundation anyway, and as suggested if you put moveable or temp stairs in there it'd be no big deal to rig a mill into a basement.

Thanks. I was just hoping to get input from someone who might have already disassembled and moved a BP mill.

I'll ask about the increased wall height, as that seems like a great thing. They do insulate the walls with foam as I understand it, so that shouldn't be an issue. The bump-out might be difficult though, as the terrain there is pretty flat. But we have changed the floor plan so that there is a dedicated set of stairs doing down from the garage right into the shop, with a 3' landing at the bottom. So at least it's somewhat of a compromise.

TB

Have you run the plan with the stairs in the garage by the permitting authorities?? They're no longer allowed here. That is a real danger if you get a gasoline leak in the garage, the heavy vapors can pool and run into the basement. Then they find the water heater or other ignition source...

Some guys have a trap door in the kitchen floor that leads to their wine cellar. I recently saw a setup where the trap door was for lowering machinery into the basement. There were double doors off the kitchen and the lowering was via a fork lift from outside, using a boom attachment.

There were a good dozen machines down there, not counting the washer and dryer.

Bridgeports come apart easy and they don't weigh all that much. You can pop the top part off in ten minutes, so if you can do it in two pieces, you're set.

Taking the table off, that'd be a bit more of a hassle but still doable.

Do it once, keep the real mill. Anything worth using is going to be at least as much trouble as the Bridgepoprt to take apart.

Or maybe you could build a ramp down into the basement ? Or a 4' x 4' square elevator that exits to the outside ? That shouldn't be a huge project. You could use one of those above-the-ground car lifts. Then you could get other stuff in and out easily too.

wheels17 said:

Have you run the plan with the stairs in the garage by the permitting authorities?? They're no longer allowed here. That is a real danger if you get a gasoline leak in the garage, the heavy vapors can pool and run into the basement. Then they find the water heater or other ignition source...

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No, I haven't. But the General Contractor is the one who told me we could do it, and then had the plans drawn up by the architect they use. I would have thought they would know, seeing how this particular contractor has built we over 100 houses in the area over the past 5-10 years. I've also been in a few other houses in the area where they had stairs going down into the basement. We looked at a bunch of homes on the market before deciding to build, and several had stairs going down into the basement from the garage--and there's always a door at the bottom of the stairs, so I don't really see a concern. So I think it's a pretty common thing here in Wisconsin anyway.

I have to wonder though: When's the last time you had a significant gas leak in the garage though?!? LOL.

EmanuelGoldstein said:

Bridgeports come apart easy and they don't weigh all that much. You can pop the top part off in ten minutes, so if you can do it in two pieces, you're set.

Taking the table off, that'd be a bit more of a hassle but still doable.

Do it once, keep the real mill. Anything worth using is going to be at least as much trouble as the Bridgepoprt to take apart.

Or maybe you could build a ramp down into the basement ? Or a 4' x 4' square elevator that exits to the outside ? That shouldn't be a huge project. You could use one of those above-the-ground car lifts. Then you could get other stuff in and out easily too.

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Interesting thoughts actually. Another option I thought of, since the house construction hasn't even started yet, is that I could maybe coordinate that the mill be moved over to the jobsite when they were putting the floor "cap" on the foundation, and they might be able to use the on-site crane to lower it down? Not sure whether or not that would even be a possibility, but I'll at least inquire with our GC.

The lift is an interesting idea though. Hmmm...very intriguing.

TB

B-ports come apart easily and into mostly manageable sections. Two person lift for everything except base casting and knee. And both are easily moved down straight shot stairs. Moving up and out is a little more difficult, but do-able.

Strongly suggest tho, if you're building new- a shop has got to be an outside building for the reasons listed above. Camouflage it if needed for your neighbours or building code restrictions as a garage. And if you do go the garage route, i'd also strongly suggest 9' tall garage doors and to frame in overhead lifting beams. So handy, esp as your knees and body ages.

PM me your email if you'd like pics of how I've done this with my personal shop.

Have fun with your build!

Lucky7

By the way, don't move your mill and tooling into the new construction until it's weather proofed and heated/ dehumidified. Rust everywhere is a pain.

L7

tcbetka said:

So I'm strongly considering whether or not to just disassemble the one I have now so I can move it to the new house and get it downstairs in the basement, versus selling it outright and buying something like a bench-top mill from Precision Matthews.

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<shudder> .