Need help on how to "Drill out" plug welds in Dana 60 axle housing.... "hole saw"? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Response to "Not rocket science. Even rednecks do it well"

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Old stuff. Inside sleeves, outside sleeves, spliced in the middle, toward one end, brand-new tube, tube in - or over - punkin' stub, tube in - or over - wheel-end stub, both ends..

    Just name it HAS been done.

    Off-road, rough road, or most truck'ish things, modest extra mass not ordinarily a concern. "Reinforced" result may add genuine value.

    But it is "unsprung" mass, so a race car or even a passenger car, the mass is at east "looked at", and the "best approach" chosen, accordingly.

    Not rocket science. Even rednecks do it well.



    It fails, you try again. More carefully.

    Pick the route on which you are most comfortable you can actually deliver useful results with the skills and equipment you have, not what you WISH you had.

    Else hire it done.

    How many did you actually need before lunchtime tomorrow, anyway? How many for the first quarter of next year?

    It you are not "in the business", better to take that sort of work to a shop that IS in the business. Not a lot of point learning something that only gets applied once or twice in over a year that they did several of in a single day.
    "Not rocket science. Even rednecks do it well."

    Yea, that's what scares me !

    Thanks for the advice, good stuff and much to think over.
    Glad to hear it is a viable option and not that hair brained.

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    I have done a dozen or so Dana 60 front axles and 9 inch housings. When I was doing that stuff I bought the bar and pucks from Dutchmans and made any custom bits I needed.

    To remove the tubes you need 40 tons and a big rosebud on your torch. It will take every bit of 40 tons and a ton of heat to press it apart after you cut the welds.

    I always cut the welds with a torch. I tried carbide endmills, but at the time all I had was a bridgeport and they aren't rigid enough to push and endmill through material that hard.

    I built a cheap charlie narrowed up balljoint HP60 and 10.25 sterling rear axle for an ex girlfriend's Ford Ranger a long time ago. I just cut the tubes and made thin sleeves like you mention for a full pen weld. It worked fine as far as I know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe28704 View Post
    "Not rocket science. Even rednecks do it well."

    Yea, that's what scares me !

    Thanks for the advice, good stuff and much to think over.
    Glad to hear it is a viable option and not that hair brained.
    My REAL "advice" is to not mess with it AT ALL. Just go and get a vehicle already better-suited to the needs you THINK you have, ex-factory.

    It will not ordinarily be your "last-ever" set of wheels, the stock ones trade off easier for the next one, and you won't waste years of yer life jawing over "I used to have this...". " or "I should have never sold.." forgetting conveniently oil consumption was tossing sealed-one-liter containers out the tailpipe, one head had launched a sparking plug into low-earth orbit, and the transfer case was making Halloween groans that scared the dog.

    Taking 4WD "enhancements" alone... about 99% of all those mods are not necessary for functionality.

    Folks just do them because they can, they want to, they think it is "cool".

    Get a jacked-up uber-powered 4WD truck built? Go play in the dirt?

    Usta be some 70 year old farmer tooted his horn so he could drive right around you in a stock-height Studebaker or Cornbinder 2 WD pickup, skinny-ass bias-ply summer-tread recapped tires shaking his head at boys with toys that got stuck in the same mud he had been navigating 2WD across for 55 years! And, Oh BTW? That'd be only his second truck the whole time, both bought used or traded for a common 12-bore shotgun or such like.

    No joke. I could name names, up-holler WBGVA. Some of 'em 60 years in the grave, too.

    But y'know? The "Monogehela Red" clay soils haven't gotten any slipperier in many millions of years, so...


  5. #24
    keithmech Guest

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    "Folks just do them because they can, they want to, they think it is "cool".
    Really?And people can"t just have fun?So many guys I know that are real
    mechanics started out lifting and 4byen their truck.This is a great hobby for alot of people,keep your pathetic comments up your ass,

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    Quote Originally Posted by keithmech View Post
    "Folks just do them because they can, they want to, they think it is "cool".
    Really?And people can"t just have fun?So many guys I know that are real
    mechanics started out lifting and 4byen their truck.This is a great hobby for alot of people,keep your pathetic comments up your ass,
    People "starting out" do a lot of things they might not keep-on doing.

    I had HEARD that a person's IQ was inversely proportional to the height his truck was off the ground, but had thought it was actually a joke.

    Until just now.

    Thanks for resolving that so efficiently.

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    Default Thank you Garwood

    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    I have done a dozen or so Dana 60 front axles and 9 inch housings. When I was doing that stuff I bought the bar and pucks from Dutchmans and made any custom bits I needed.

    To remove the tubes you need 40 tons and a big rosebud on your torch. It will take every bit of 40 tons and a ton of heat to press it apart after you cut the welds.

    I always cut the welds with a torch. I tried carbide endmills, but at the time all I had was a bridgeport and they aren't rigid enough to push and endmill through material that hard.

    I built a cheap charlie narrowed up balljoint HP60 and 10.25 sterling rear axle for an ex girlfriend's Ford Ranger a long time ago. I just cut the tubes and made thin sleeves like you mention for a full pen weld. It worked fine as far as I know.
    Thank you Garwood.
    This is just the kind of moral support and experienced folks I'm looking for.
    I don't need to change width, just rotate pinion up 12 deg. relative to rear steering knuckles.
    It looks like sleeving it will be my best approach. ( No torching, no hydraulic pressing).

    This chassis is for a re-do of a lifted 57' chevy wagon I did a spring over 12 plus years ago.
    It's my retirement "gift" to keep me off the couch in semi-retirement, and I'm going to see it thru as much on my own as possible. I'm doing this alone because it is hard!!.

    With a very light interference fit on the sleeves do you you believe an attempt to draw them in with a long threaded rod is worth the effort? That's my game plan to date.
    Once again, thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe28704 View Post
    With a very light interference fit on the sleeves do you you believe an attempt to draw them in with a long threaded rod is worth the effort?
    I'm an optimist, but I would trial-run that with sample same-same materials, same effective length target overlap "dummy" stock first. Avoiding disappointment on the "actual" is well worth the cost of a bit of relatively cheap material scrapped.

    What "should" happen is that the other tube expands to conform. Problem is, if it is your first go, this material, you can't really know by "how much", whether you can even complete the target movement with threaded goods, may damage a tube, etc.

    If a more experienced hand - I am not he - is to advise, they'll need to know exactly what material, condition, and sizes you will be using, and/or/else tell you what THEY use that has worked.

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    Joe28704 wrote: "This chassis is for a re-do of a lifted 57' chevy wagon..."
    In Quadrasteer, no less. Are you using all the factory bits and sensors to make it go, or going homebrew for control, etc.? There are a few little sensors and stuff to keep the system happy, and to tell it whether to steer in-phase or out-of-phase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Chester View Post
    Joe28704 wrote: "This chassis is for a re-do of a lifted 57' chevy wagon..."
    In Quadrasteer, no less. Are you using all the factory bits and sensors to make it go, or going homebrew for control, etc.? There are a few little sensors and stuff to keep the system happy, and to tell it whether to steer in-phase or out-of-phase.
    OY! Could just perch the coachwork atop a salvaged 6,000 Anthony RT forklift?

    Driver's hand on a single hydraulic valve was all it needed be able to crab, steer with either end or both at once. Chassis tilt was a separate lever. Fork manipulation needed a degree in applied Chinese acrobat, ELSE Dickensian pickpocketing.

    Mind, wasn't what a person would want to get moving all that fast over the ground..


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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    I just cut the tubes and made thin sleeves like you mention for a full pen weld. It worked fine as far as I know.
    ...And there you have it.

    cut the other end, or the middle.

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    Default Thank you Garwood

    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    I have done a dozen or so Dana 60 front axles and 9 inch housings. When I was doing that stuff I bought the bar and pucks from Dutchmans and made any custom bits I needed.

    To remove the tubes you need 40 tons and a big rosebud on your torch. It will take every bit of 40 tons and a ton of heat to press it apart after you cut the welds.

    I always cut the welds with a torch. I tried carbide endmills, but at the time all I had was a bridgeport and they aren't rigid enough to push and endmill through material that hard.

    I built a cheap charlie narrowed up balljoint HP60 and 10.25 sterling rear axle for an ex girlfriend's Ford Ranger a long time ago. I just cut the tubes and made thin sleeves like you mention for a full pen weld. It worked fine as far as I know.
    You mention you bought "bar and pucks", sorry I'm not familiar with the terms.......
    Centerles ground rod and "pucks" to take the place of bearings for alignment before welding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe28704 View Post
    I need help in the best procedure to "drill" out the plug welds of an cast iron axle housing to tube connections so the tubes can be ROTATED in the housing to change pinion angle.
    I can plasma torch them out, but if there is a cleaner way to do so I'd love to hear about it.
    (The plugs are really hard stuff and wont respond to carbide pilot hole bit.)

    The rear end is a Quadrasteer (see picture) (Yea, I know I'm screwed)

    The tubes must be rotated because they have steering knuckles on their ends that must maintain the caster angle.

    My least favored approach to change pinion angle is to cut the tubes, rotate and take my chances in realignment, although since knuckle has its own CV joint it may not be that critical, need to investigate the bearing type in the hub, ect.

    Thanks for any input!
    Use a end mill or grinder to remove the weld. Then if you can use pressure or a press to push the last thin weld which is weakened away from the mating parts. If you have to eliminate the weld completely freeing the weld you can always fill in with weld in those areas and either turn them smoothe or carefully grind them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    I'm an optimist, but I would trial-run that with sample same-same materials, same effective length target overlap "dummy" stock first. Avoiding disappointment on the "actual" is well worth the cost of a bit of relatively cheap material scrapped.

    What "should" happen is that the other tube expands to conform. Problem is, if it is your first go, this material, you can't really know by "how much", whether you can even complete the target movement with threaded goods, may damage a tube, etc.

    If a more experienced hand - I am not he - is to advise, they'll need to know exactly what material, condition, and sizes you will be using, and/or/else tell you what THEY use that has worked.
    Really you are a optimist. Lol I am not too sure thermite although I find you helpful sometimes.

  17. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe28704 View Post
    You mention you bought "bar and pucks", sorry I'm not familiar with the terms.......
    Centerles ground rod and "pucks" to take the place of bearings for alignment before welding?
    Dutchmans was a company that did custom axles and splines here in Portland. They used to sell a TGP bar with hard pucks sized for various carrier bearings. It was expensive and I bought one because I didn't have the tools to make the parts back then.

    You need a way to line everything up close. The bar does that well. It won't be perfect, but it gets it close enough for what it is.

    How are you going to measure the angles? I bring it up because I found the hard way you have to have a more accurate way than a welders angle finder. A machinist bubble protractor works pretty good.

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    Default Thanks Garwood 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    Dutchmans was a company that did custom axles and splines here in Portland. They used to sell a TGP bar with hard pucks sized for various carrier bearings. It was expensive and I bought one because I didn't have the tools to make the parts back then.

    You need a way to line everything up close. The bar does that well. It won't be perfect, but it gets it close enough for what it is.

    How are you going to measure the angles? I bring it up because I found the hard way you have to have a more accurate way than a welders angle finder. A machinist bubble protractor works pretty good.
    I might have to forgo "Bar and Pucks" as using a light pressed in sleeve #1) "should" keep alignment and ( yes I know that's a BIG, BIG ,BIG if) #2) Once sleeves are pressed in there will be no wiggle room to "adjust" as it's all "tight".

    To get best alignment/straightness I will make sleeves quite long, maybe 8" to 10" into EACH end of tubes. Like I said earlier my intent is to draw them all in with a big long threaded rod thru the whole mess.

    After its all drawn in I'll re-install the axles and test for binding.

    If there is any binding I'll have to devise PLAN B.

    I'll be using a pretty sensitive digital angle finder and measure the pinnion first (reference) and just add 12 Deg to that for each of the ends.

    Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

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    Default Trying to get this post to tommy1010

    Thank you tommy 1010 for responding to my post.

    I really hope this message gets to you as I would like to ask you a few questions.

    Your remark "do this all the time" is just what I'm hoping to hear from.

    I got to rotate 12 Degrees more on the pinion. A Quick protractor layout on paper rolls/rotates OD maybe an additional 3/8" along the circumference. So it's not "much" to get the 12 Degrees.

    OK, I need a "robust" bench to fixture this, got it.

    You indicate "it takes heat and a large hammer to spin pumpkin".

    I got some questions:

    What type of heat application do you do and what temperature do you figure it gets up to before it STARTS to give enough to turn controlably? (Seals surely must get fried, or removed before heat application). This is an unknown to me at this time. A buddy says "you can do it with the axles and differential case left in as you are just rotating not removing" !. I could use someone with EXPERIENCE here!! :)

    So you bang/hit on it with large hammer to move and tweak it to the laid out marks?

    Applying torque on a say 4 foot Pipe wrench not smooth and accurate enough? "Skippy" in motion?

    What are your thoughts on CUTTING tubes then insert long say 16" inner thin sleeve going 8" into each tube end with a very light interference fit drawing the whole mess in all at once in together by a long threaded rod with thrust plates/bearings and nuts?
    My buddy says that's way too much trouble and misalignment rears its ugly head.

    You thoughts on this are greatly appreciated.

    Still sitting on the fence between your grind out plugs/heat/turn VS cut/insert sleeve/turn/weld

    Thank you.

    If someone knows tommy1010 would you please let him know this message is for him? Thank you.
    Last edited by joe28704; 05-22-2018 at 05:05 PM. Reason: Trying to direct it to a particular person!

  20. #37
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    Also the axle tubes may have a welded seam that impacts ant fitting.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

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    Default To Chip

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Chester View Post
    Joe28704 wrote: "This chassis is for a re-do of a lifted 57' chevy wagon..."
    In Quadrasteer, no less. Are you using all the factory bits and sensors to make it go, or going homebrew for control, etc.? There are a few little sensors and stuff to keep the system happy, and to tell it whether to steer in-phase or out-of-phase.
    Yes bought the whole damned running 2004 Yukon 2500 , special steering wheel w/ encoder, computers, sensors ect.
    I got a whole 55 gal drum of wiring out of it!
    Shortened the frame already, needs 8" lift and pinion rotated/set to final geometry.
    Should be plug and play, no?

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    I didn't work at a Chevy/GMC dealership when these trucks were current but I did take all factory training for the system. So, I have no hands on experience with the “system”. That said I have heard horror stories from other techs attempting to repair faults under warranty. Several buy-backs resulted. The functioning system garners owner raves. Broken quadrasreer axles may be hard to diagnose due to lack of volume that limits tech experience. Be meticulous with wiring routing,connections and grounds in the harness. GM recommends a specific dielectric lube on all terminals to prevent fretting and voltage loss due to added resistance. GM also uses a 5 volt signal source that is easier to degrade with poor contact in the connectors.
    I hope you aren’t mixing and matching the powerplant,transmission,and braking systems. The factory integrates the inputs and sensors from other control modules to allow the quadrasteer to know what to do...all communicated over several communication circuits with various data rates and circuit designs.
    Not easy to find a glitch and failures in some links cause no starts and stalls. Fun stuff. Glad I’m retired.
    Joe

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    might be easier to cut off spring perches and reattach them .
    i think even with plug welds cut tube not gonna rotate. jmo


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