Need help with way oil problem

gear cutter · Sep 14, 2019

My Barber Colman hobbing machines are going through a lot of Vactra 2 oil. They leak it everywhere. I would like to try and recycle it in house if possible. Does anyone here recycle their own oil now? I am going through 10 to 20 gallons or more a month.
It's not burnt looking or smell bad like used engine oil. It just picks up dirt and contaminants from running through the machine and dripping into the catch basins at the bottom of the machines. I would appreciate any help or advice, this stuff is getting pretty expensive. I can't get even seem to get a discount even if I buy it in bulk.

Dan from Oakland · Sep 14, 2019

Are you sure you don't have a broken oil line somewhere? How long does the lube pressure gage maintain pressure after the lubricator cycles? The mechanical pumps on #12's have a stroke adjustment that controls how much oil is delivered each cycle and how often. Might someone have misadjusted the pump over the years? I'm not convinced that some of the oil in the catch basins is not cutting oil rather than lube oil. We usually take a suction gun and just dump the catch basin oil into the cutting oil reservoir. For years I've wondered if there is a casting flaw in the base of ours that is allowing cutting oil to seep into a few of the troughs-

Joe Gwinn · Sep 14, 2019

Run the used oil through a regular oil filter intended for a large truck.

daryl bane · Sep 14, 2019

Just a throwout comment. Vactra #2 was changed a number of years ago that removed the tackifier from the formula. I understand this was for the printing industry. Vacuoline 1409 is the old Vactra #2 formula. I use this now on all of my old manual machines that specified #2, and I don't get anywhere near the runoff and consumption.

Garwood · Sep 14, 2019

daryl bane said:
Just a throwout comment. Vactra #2 was changed a number of years ago that removed the tackifier from the formula. I understand this was for the printing industry. Vacuoline 1409 is the old Vactra #2 formula. I use this now on all of my old manual machines that specified #2, and I don't get anywhere near the runoff and consumption.

The composition of Vactra 2 was changed without notice in the mid 80's. That was quite awhile ago, but the new stuff worked just like the old stuff. Just had this tiny little issue of not mixing with the old Vactra 2. A lot of early-mid 80's CNC machines were damaged during this period when the mix coagulated in the lines and many late 80's machines are designed to run on anything BUT Vactra 2 for this reason.

20 gallons a month is pretty wild for a few older machines. I would think a gallon or so maybe.

gear cutter · Sep 14, 2019

Garwood said:
The composition of Vactra 2 was changed without notice in the mid 80's. That was quite awhile ago, but the new stuff worked just like the old stuff. Just had this tiny little issue of not mixing with the old Vactra 2. A lot of early-mid 80's CNC machines were damaged during this period when the mix coagulated in the lines and many late 80's machines are designed to run on anything BUT Vactra 2 for this reason.

20 gallons a month is pretty wild for a few older machines. I would think a gallon or so maybe.

I have 14 type A. They are the worst. One Newark with a worn input shaft seal. Those are the main culprits. I know I need to go through the lube systems and look for missing flow metering fittings but in the meantime I would like to reduce me oil bill.

gear cutter · Sep 14, 2019

Joe Gwinn said:
Run the used oil through a regular oil filter intended for a large truck.

I would like to make some sort of system to do just that. or buy it if it's not super expensive.

Richard King · Sep 14, 2019

Dan from Oakland said:
Are you sure you don't have a broken oil line somewhere? How long does the lube pressure gage maintain pressure after the lubricator cycles? The mechanical pumps on #12's have a stroke adjustment that controls how much oil is delivered each cycle and how often. Might someone have misadjusted the pump over the years? I'm not convinced that some of the oil in the catch basins is not cutting oil rather than lube oil. We usually take a suction gun and just dump the catch basin oil into the cutting oil reservoir. For years I've wondered if there is a casting flaw in the base of ours that is allowing cutting oil to seep into a few of the troughs-

I agree, there must be a broken line or someone removed the BiJur metering units and thought they were plugged by blowing out the metering valves inside the brass units. If that's the place, then buy new ones. Bourn & Koch is the mfg of Barbar Coleman now.

gear cutter · Sep 14, 2019

Dan from Oakland said:
Are you sure you don't have a broken oil line somewhere? How long does the lube pressure gage maintain pressure after the lubricator cycles? The mechanical pumps on #12's have a stroke adjustment that controls how much oil is delivered each cycle and how often. Might someone have misadjusted the pump over the years? I'm not convinced that some of the oil in the catch basins is not cutting oil rather than lube oil. We usually take a suction gun and just dump the catch basin oil into the cutting oil reservoir. For years I've wondered if there is a casting flaw in the base of ours that is allowing cutting oil to seep into a few of the troughs-

Some of them leak so bad I'm using Vactra 2 as cutting oil. Actually gives a nice finish. But it all overflows into the catch basins and after a while there's a lot of it. I'd rather have too much oil than not enough I've had them starve out and seize up and that ain't pretty.

TDegenhart · Sep 14, 2019

Bigger catch basin and a oil filter and recirculate system. Bast of both worlds.

Tom

EPAIII · Sep 14, 2019

Ten to twenty gallons a month? If there's a broken line, wouldn't there be a noticeable puddle of oil somewhere? Even if it were collecting in some out of sight area, sooner or later it should overflow.

If nothing else, I would try to filter it and reuse it as cutting oil.

gear cutter · Sep 14, 2019

Richard King said:
I agree, there must be a broken line or someone removed the BiJur metering units and thought they were plugged by blowing out the metering valves inside the brass units. If that's the place, then buy new ones. Bourn & Koch is the mfg of Barbar Coleman now.

That's probably got a lot to do with this. I'm pretty sure If I get time to look into it I'm going to find missing metering fittings.
I can't think I can even afford to talk to B & K on the phone. Those guys pricing is way out of whack. lucky for me I have a lifetime supply of B-C parts machines.

gear cutter · Sep 14, 2019

EPAIII said:
Ten to twenty gallons a month? If there's a broken line, wouldn't there be a noticeable puddle of oil somewhere? Even if it were collecting in some out of sight area, sooner or later it should overflow.

If nothing else, I would try to filter it and reuse it as cutting oil.

Iv'e got a lot of gear machines in here and they all leak. Some worse than others. Even my newest ones dribble oil out. I have an operator go around the shop every Monday and collect oil from catch pans and basins. If nobody does it by the next Monday we'll have a puddle on the floor somewhere.

CalG · Sep 14, 2019

settlement, a magnet, and some filtration cleans up most oils. It won't unmix cross contamination.

Dan from Oakland · Sep 14, 2019

Don't even try to clean metering units or salvage them from parts machines. They are pretty inexpensive from either Bijur or Lube USA. Check the lube hoses too- going to the main clutch throw out bearing and the ones on the back going to the hob slide and hob swivel.

Mark Rand · Sep 14, 2019

Two questions:-
1)Are any machines worse than the others?
2)has it always been like this or has there been a change?

gear cutter · Sep 15, 2019

Mark Rand said:
Two questions:-
1)Are any machines worse than the others?
2)has it always been like this or has there been a change?

1. Yes some are worse than others. I have several machines that have what I would say is normal leakage. The basins fill up in a few weeks or so. The worse ones spew out enough to fill the basins every week. They all run every day all day.

2. It's always been like this. I have been buying them putting them in place as I got them and start making parts with them. I do as much maintenance as I can when I can and I have reduced some of the spillage. But I have a ways to go.

Oil prices keep going up and I am giving away a lot of used oil to other shops to use in their oil furnaces. I was hoping to maybe reclaim some of it until I cna fix all the leaks.

I bought most of them from the same place. They didn't have the best maintenance practice. I'm not saying I'm the greatest at it. I'm the maintenance guy among everything else.
Surprisingly other than leaking a lot they all make great gears. The ways are in good shape, no change in PD as I measure along a long arbor full of gears. They aren't overly noisy like a lot of other shops machines I have worked with.

dkmc · Sep 15, 2019

I would think you'd want a centrifuge to reclaim the dirty oil.....
Simple Centrifuge ...putting a centrifuge in every garage!

Need help with way oil problem

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