Need some advice(X-Post): Have 2700lb skid at dock, dock can't load, best option ?

I have a Sharp HMV I bought from a company in Ohio. The last machine I bought like this was from them and was identical nearly and they shipped it on something like a 48x66. In this case they shipped it on a 66X79. They also shipped it with the head up.

The dock they shipped to(a box van 53 foot) cannot load it for me to get it home. A dock that loads truck or trailer via ramp. is the reason I had it shipped to a dock.

I've bought several items a year from this place and they know my preferred dock and that the dock must have a ramp.

Well they sent the machine via a carrier that has a habit of being a bit rough, for one thing. The worst thing is they don't have a dock. So it doesn't make a flying fuck if I take my 14' foot drop trailer and try to go get it. The dock doesn't have a way to load it- they have no ramp. Also the company in Ohio shipped it with the head up ! So I have no idea how much damage has been done there. I need to go to the dock it is at tomorrow, lower the head to 90*, and then it is a bit manageable and maybe it won't be as expensive.


My options are
1. get a rigger with a piggyback truck to go get it- the dock could load on their truck and it be delivered to my house. I could either unload it with the 70hp tractor with forks and rear ballast(the HMV milling machine weighs 2700lb). Or if they have a piggy back, let them unload it. It is 108 miles to my house. I've never used a rigger for anything. I have no idea what to expect.

2. Call my preferred dock and pay them to drive 20 miles across town, pick it up, and then they take it back to their dock with ramp, they load it on my trailer. I then drive 100 miles home.

Any idea on what a rigger would cost to in Chattanooga to pickup a skid that is 66"x 79"x96"(like I said- shipped head up) ? At 36 I ain't done too much trailering and my trailer has been sitting. Honestly I'm scared with trailering and I've seen plenty of Darlington stripes on I-75 into Chattanooga. Trailer tows ok, just had some tin on it where I've been waiting to expand the building

Option 3: Eat the machine cost of $1800, eat the $600 in shipping, and abandon on dock and go on welfare.

Love me some government cheese right now.

Did I mention you can't call the shipping company's dock direct. Where it is shipped, the docks don't give a direct number ? You have to call corporate, and for a week and a half while the skid was sitting on this tiny ass dock in a BAD- as in someone one shot at me while I was on a Harley Davidson in that neighborhood, they told me it was still at the machine reseller per BOL. And it had been at the doggone dock.

Advice, thoughts, get the white government cheese or the yellow ?

I can't really help you as I'm in a different country, but I'll try as you've kept a sense of humour despite the situation. I would get a rigger to deliver it. Call around and see what the cost may be- either fixed for the 108 mi journey or per hour. 'Round these parts per hour runs about $150 Canuck bucks ($110 USD).

At this point I'd want nothing more to do with orchestrating logistics and would rather have the machine placed at my feet.

Get someone with a roll back truck, load it on the truck and then slide it on your trailer. You should find a tow company that has some experience with hauling machines. You should be charged by the hour. I see rollbacks hauling machines here quite often. The rollback should be able to slide the bed down to your trailers deck height.
Ben

Ben said:

Get someone with a roll back truck, load it on the truck and then slide it on your trailer. You should find a tow company that has some experience with hauling machines. You should be charged by the hour. I see rollbacks hauling machines here quite often. The rollback should be able to slide the bed down to your trailers deck height.
Ben

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I use that rollback flatbed trick often when transferring big loads between docks/vehicles/trailers/ground. The trick is to ask around and find the guy who's done a few moves like that. I have a guy here who has an older steel, smooth flatbed that allows custom palletized machines to slide easily onto the bed. The wood skids can hang up on the textured or diamond-plate beds.

For what it's worth, the head-up is only a concern when it comes to clearance or center of gravity. Won't cause any damage, and in my opinion is better left up anyway.

slideback !!!!!!!!

How can you run a freight terminal without forklifts.....in any case ,I would simply go to a neighbouring business ,and see if they wont use their fork to load it for say $50.........the last business I worked for the CEO would drive the fork himself for $50 cash in hand.

john.k said:

How can you run a freight terminal without forklifts.....

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I have seen many factories and freight terminals,that ONLY have dock access.They have forklifts,but are trapped in the building.They can load and unload a dock high truck,but cant get the load down to ground level or utility trailer level.There are a lot of businesses and people that ONLY know how to do one thing and don't want to do anything different or challenging.This is very frustrating to people in machine shops, where EVERY JOB IS DIFFERENT AND CHALENGING.In St louis we have many new freight terminals opening every year and just as many closeing. They pop up like weeds and die .Edwin Dirnbeck

Let me get this straight. It was shipped on a skid via LTL freight carrier, and is sitting at said carriers terminal, or is it at some other company's dock?

If the issue is dock height, a 26' Penske rental truck is dock high...

Why didn't you have them deliver to your location?

Chattanooga is the birthplace of the wrecker, and many are still made there - you'll have no problems finding a tow company to take care of that. Doug Yates towing is a big player in that area. Usually 50-75 bucks will get a machine transfered from dock high to ground level.

Yeah I tried to get Doug Yates to get it, they were willing, the Betsy lady that is office manager is a classy person.

I've explained the logistics above.

I had a major machine rigger check into it and the company wanted to keep then waiting, hem, haw, etc.

It's an old dock- the 26' foot Penske is modern dock high but this building was built back in the 50's, and they're several feet higher.

I went down there twice, I was told to deal with their outbound manager. I did he told me to email me a release saying release to Doug Yates and a copy of my DL. I did. I sent them my release, my BOL, my front of DL, my back of DL. Outbound mgr was supposed to call or email me. Never did.

$85 an hour is lowest rate you will find to get a machine haulled in Chatannooga. If the dock makes the driver come in and dick around, that's another $85 not on the road.

So I called the dock mgr yesterday and he promised me that he would contact me yesterday afternoon or send me an email or call me if he didn't get it. I called again yesterday afternoon and he ignored me. I again called this AM- no answer, no email. He ignored me.

So I called Betsy at DY and I cancelled the pickup.

There isn't a dropoff system with Penske/Ryder- if you rent one here, you return to same location. I'm 200mi roundtrip, plus mileage, and if I had anything to get it from dock height, I'd rent one. skid is 96" high, 80" long, 66" wide, so machine is in middle. If I try to lower the head, it releases the banding and loosens the machine.

If the folks off Alton Park had gotten back to me that they had the release to DY, it was hauled this morning. I am done with it. I've tried everything I know to do. To get to Central's dock, you gotta call their corporate location. Because I scheduled one pickup, Central took it out of the system, it did't get picked up because of trying to get Central to communicate.

I've been on this with a total of 4 riggers(there are riggers in Dayton and Cleveland and south of Knoxville in addition to Dxxxxxx in Chattnooga). I've called 20 flatbed wreckers that will haul from Chattnooga to across the NC line.

At minimum to get it from Central's dock to my trailer is $115 less than just getting hauled.

I am done. Thank you all. I greatly appreciate it. You don't know how much. I am closing May.

In process of getting worse.

Call a wrecker, have them swing it onto your trailer.



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Cole2534 said:

Call a wrecker, have them swing it onto your trailer.

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I did. Several. Including a flat bed wrecker. To get through to Central Transport MI, they have a CS call center that acts as a buffer between the customer and the terminal. Terminal would not stay in touch or be in contact direct with me or riggers or wreckers or haulers.

Getting another LTL to just get it isn't so easy as you think. There were some that did not want to go through the neighborhood, an overpass, or the medieval dock which is actually higher than most 5x' foot vans. They also didn't want to deal with Central or Central's- "We don't let you talk to terminal, we'll talk to terminal for them." Some outright said: "No, heck no, not fooling with something the people at Central had touched."

I sent people to pick it, lost money there as terminal would not cooperate- they couldn't read a BOL(which was screwed up)- but I'd been trying to find my skid by that time for two weeks- CS said it was still in Ohio. finally got someone lightly competent and scheduled an online pickup in writing with my needs and what I needed to know. I closed shop to get it twice, only to be told by their CS that (1) no ramp when I finally got to Ooltewah exit, (2) no answer phone, really going down Darlington section of 75 on I-24 when I cannnot get an answer and they won't call as requested on original pickup ?

Terminal and CS could not cooperate with a local wrecker company.

They then threatened me storage, but I had the fact- they couldn't load it, they'd dicked around, and I had at least one individiual say "skid looks awful rough- either they couldn't handle it or they took out some frustration".

Without any authorization they sent it back to Ohio- company I'm trying to give you a chance, and that company has hit me up with "You owe us return shipping, storage, and what do you want us to do ?"

They force the buyer to use their carrier for shipping and don't consult you other than to give you a price. Their shipper (Central) went out of control, was uncooperative, and chose to send it back.

At the point they sent it back I had asked a wrecker company to go over and see if it was safe to haul around the Ocoee Gorge to final destination after what I'd heard about the pallet.

I've spoken with an attorney, and paid that. I've also spoken with someone in Ohio's AG and they brought up Ohio's Consumer Sales Practices Act and that depending on how this went with the fact that I was supposed to be dealing with a ready, willing, able seller who forces their logistics with an implied marketability that those logistics can provide a services necessary for pickup and I have it documented that terminal would never reply to emails or call me re: my original pickup- they weren't a ready, willing, able, competent, shipper, shouldn't have taken the skid. That's shown in that these guys were buffaloed by a Bridgeport copy that weighed 2770lbs on a skid that is 66x79x96- "Lord amercy that's a big ol' boy there." So I've told at this point the item, if it comes down to it, it is basically at this in one person's opinion considered a synonym for purloined that starts with an "s".

But I don't need any more hassle. Not having a working BP size mill has hurt things and it is not worth me continuing the business after I've lost what I've lost with this.

That is the state of affairs.

The only thing I authorized was:

(1)Bought mill
(2) Got bill for freight
(3) paid bill for freight, tried to wait out the polar vortex and the chance of a machine being destoryed via Jacknife(have a Rockwell VS Lathe for gunsmithing that got destoryed that way and did not complain- I ate it that time). They have a XX day policy it can stay at location, as they had so many days closed and holidays, I wasn't out of time, and they have cut off certain payment methods that allow you to pay via just a direct transfer with assurance of skid getting to you.
(4)Freight company inable and unwilling to do their job, freight company wanted to punish someone so they sent it back to Ohio as best way to get back at me- in my opinion.
(5) Freight company never did understand a clause on the BOL that listed a consigner and consignee and they literally didn't understand those terms.

Why did you have it sent to a terminal and not just to your shop? Let me guess, it was cheaper?

Did you miss this video? YouTube

Others here do not agree with me, but I will not ship machines in box vans, they are just too top heavy and there is no way to strap them down. Flatbed and door to door service is only way.

dalmatiangirl61 said:

Why did you have it sent to a terminal and not just to your shop? Let me guess, it was cheaper?

Did you miss this video? YouTube

Others here do not agree with me, but I will not ship machines in box vans, they are just too top heavy and there is no way to strap them down. Flatbed and door to door service is only way.

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The reason I get them at terminals isn't because I want to, it's because the truckers will not drive the unpaved road to my shop/property. There is 100 acre farm attached to the shop, and there are literally 40 acre fields for them to turn, but they- VERY RIGHTLY, NO CRITICISM INTENDED- do not risk trying to back 8/10 of a mile down to avoid turning, and the road is unpaved and they won't go on grass to turn. They don't like gravel either. If it was me as a trucker- I understand their POV.

The last time I got something delivered- it was a Pan/shovel(ie flat side shovel)- and I was to build the motor. The driver was O-D and he backed down 1/4 of the way, and I had to improvise a hay roll attachment to get the skid off. I also got a bill from O-D later because it took him a long time to back, it took a long time to safely get the crate off. So more time = more money.

After that I had a driver stop at US-64 and say that he wasn't coming any closer and he didn't consider my dock a business dock, come get at terminal.

Another company had an 8x30 knee mill with VFD and they checked the route to delivery and just told me flat out: come get this at terminal.

It was necessary for me to get the skid, so I had to play ball. Since then, I've figured- just go to terminal and get it and don't risk the extra fees. I've never had a terminal NOT have an outside forklift, ramp, or such a high dock that a 42" deck flatbed rollback wrecker was too difficult for them to load and they wouldn't cooperate.

In this case in the morning DY was to pickup, it had been two days after I'd sent an authorization of agency for pickup, copy of DL, and I said I needed to know all was well for loading- skid ok, paperwork ok, etc- Bobby at the terminal ignored me and the wrecker company could not get them, so it was pay $85 out there to get stood up, $85 back if stood up, if there was anything that caused added expense or time- add another $85. I already had paid others to go by to get a runaround or just outright refused. So this was potentially more expenses where it was on a clock with penalties as is most all equipment hauling. I got a text that afternoon from Bobby the Outbound Guy who I was told to deal with, that they hadn't come by- I replied that he never confirmed to me that there was to be a pickup and that it was released for pickup and that I had called and emailed asking- I had set this up 72 hours in advance and in 72 hours he had not bothered to check his email or send me a response of any type. He then made a threat that it was being charged $35 a day it had been there so far and I had to talk to corporate- terminal would no longer communicate with me. Corporate was just as bad- broken record. I went to an LTL forum and they were real helpful, I got some inside and I also contacted Central's mangement. Central Corporate cut off all contact when they tried to trick me into picking up the skid again with a wrecker company and having it hauled, as I asked if the skid was damaged or safe to even haul. I have it documented where I asked to pay the wrecker company to go by and see, but it was already shipped back to Ohio.

I completely agree with you on box vans- I hate using them. I have a busted up Rockwell lathe as a result of a box van transport that went bad. I don't like them, and actually- even though they rent the big mama's out- the corporations don't like the renters to rent them for heavy machinery or industrial machinery- I got told initially yes when I asked and then I was asked about my rigging bond. I don't have tow motor certification(even though I use one or I use the pallet attachment on my industrial tractor. I couldn't pay any insurance agency I called about getting the bond without the certs and OSHA training. They didn't just want their insurance taken out on the truck- they wanted a rigging bond. Dude renting the truck was like a hawk, but I sure don't blame him. He was protecting his business. There have been many accidents and incidents with box vans in our region that involved the renter and the people renting out the vans.

The issue I'm facing right now is, after I got the last set of emails learning how the company I purchased the mill from was going to treat this, I got pretty sick and my BP and stress have been through the roof- I really needed this mill to stay afloat. My insurance actually told me to get referred to go see two MD's one Monday that is a head shrinker over my stress and the other is re my heart is acting funny. I've test positive before for an autoimmune disorder- I used to have my cheeks glow bright red, my face have this shape appear that was symmetrical around my nose and eyes. They said it was some kind of ANA but they all did tests and even the rheumatologist said it wasn't something they could identify at this point and might go into remission. I stayed cool headed and didn't let anything bother me and just delved into work and reloading and my love of machining. Then my RTV-2 broke and things have gone to hell in a handbasket.

I knew things had changed after I purchased the item- they were very clipped, they didn't want to cancel a purchase, and once sale was done, you got maybe one reply and radio silence.

It might be different if you buy a truckload and you're there yourself, but in my case- I'm getting keistered.

But at this point, I don't feel I owe them the return shipping I didn't authorize. I don't think I owe them storage. I think they need to honor their commitment to the consumer who paid for shipping, send it to a place that has a terminal, and I will go pick it up. But what I think isn't the real world we live in. Might and size is equivalent to right and wrong.

It sounds like you need to OWN a dock height trailer or truck, then you just go pick up whenever it is needed. I have seen drop deck trailers that also raise up to dock height. The other good thing about the trailer is you could meet the trucker closer to your place and just back to back the trucks and slide the crate over.
Drop Deck Trailer – Lo Riser and Lift-a-Load Trailers by Advance Metalworking

Rob F. said:

It sounds like you need to OWN a dock height trailer or truck, then you just go pick up whenever it is needed. I have seen drop deck trailers that also raise up to dock height. The other good thing about the trailer is you could meet the trucker closer to your place and just back to back the trucks and slide the crate over.
Drop Deck Trailer – Lo Riser and Lift-a-Load Trailers by Advance Metalworking

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Excellent thought- but no equipment even mattered. When you send a dock height trailer with release, copy of your DL, and they have their own piggy back and they cannot get the dock to talk to them- "Ya'll need to call our Customer Service in Michigan"- they did and they got the same miscommunication and "Well we're confused- it says something about a hold or something and this consignee- what is that ?" There was no hold, the consigner is the seller and they had an internal not on the BOL that said- hold for shipping until payment clears.

As far as a dock height trailer- sounds good in principle and is a good idea for some people, however it would be of limited use, there is the liability associated with it, you need the lift truck to go with it, and you get to get into DOT health cards.

You can have all the equipment you want, all the DOT certs, health cards, etc- but LTL is such a margin, the demand for truckers is so high- they bring to your dock or you pick up at dock- in this area in particular they don't want to wait, they don't want a "we'll do you a favor"- they're like working at piece work, pick this up, drop this off, ASAP and home again, home again jiggity jig. Beyond that if I had a 52" high trailer- I still have to deal with the fact that this company considers this area out of region because of the Ocoee Gorge and the number of truck wrecks, and the fact that Central can hire and does hire truckers with a marginally more risky history of driving, so no, it wouldn't have been an option in this case. If I had said hypothetical Schroedinger's Dock Trailer, I'd still been at the mercy of MI Central Trucking CS, but with more headaches and insurance issues and licenses and certs.

The other thing is, I practically don't have a use for such a thing- I buy one or two machines a year to add to what I've got. That's why not getting this hit so badly. I'm an all manual shop, I do it when health allows- it is the one thing that gives me joy. It is a job shop and margins are thin. The other thing is, I don't use the 18' dovetail or 14' equipment trailer all that often, and it would be one more trailer to have sit in a field, which I don't like cosmetically and it drives me absolutely bonkers to have an eyesore and it bothers me more to think about the brakes and wiring. I don't loan or rent my trailers, and I don't need the liability either to cost out the equipment.

As far as keeping a tagged dock height truck or trailer- that gets very interesting as well because to get to the carriers I have to drive over 100 miles, I have to maintain the log book, I have to keep DOT compliance, health card(which becomes more stringent each year), and the insurance isn't something you just slap a policy on and go get a 10 day tag. That's why I parked my S1600- it was dock height, but it was still like dealing with a box truck. It was open at the top. Oh yeah, I just remembered, if it can be classified as having more than 2 axles in any way(even say a double dually axle trailer is considered an 8 axle trailer in NC) you have to have a special license and cert to drive it. Thanks Bev Purdue.

Beyond that, there in lies something else- with the way this was banded, lowering the head loosened the banding such that it was even more loose that the band that broke, and the boards that were destroyed on skid. So it was 96" high, 13'6" is MAXIMIMUM and on US 64 and US129, there are places you have to have a permit to go over 11" 6, so getting someone to get it makes more economical sense than me doing it.

I've had so many people ask me for more information or advice based on my experience with HGR, to see the other part you need to under the following


When Central was confronted about whether the skid was still safe to load they finally just played silent, and they sent it back to HGR.

Anyone who thinks I needed the down time, the trips I made, the time without a BP size copy, and then expenses of stood up people I contracted for pickup, I have DY pissed at me because I had it scheduled except Central would never give me authorization in fax, writing, or email that I could pick up the skid.

HGR didn't even bother to spell my name right on BOL. There is an internal memo they put on all BOL's that says don't include accessories without prior authorization- leading Central to try to call HGR all the time and make sure I'd bought it. Central had some document that they never would give me that referred to consigner and consignee- "We don't quite understand". Ya know what ? I didn't have the document, I've never seen it, but they were confused about a lot.

I was pretty clear I needed it delivered to dock for pickup. The dock could not handle the transport, the dock has about 5 bays, maybe 2 or 3 are usable and safe practically. It's an old dock, one of the older ones that Vitran had, in the three times I actually got a human they said they felt they couldn't handle lowering or otherwise loading the skid and they'd nearly tipped it- they were extremely put out by the 66x79x96 skid for a 2800lb BP copy.

I can tell you this much- I exhausted all available remedies. To show you how spiteful and incompetent Central in Chattanooga is- they shipped it back to HGR with no authorization.

They did while still stringing me along, and it was sort of emblematic of the whole thing. They literally lost it. I had to call Recon, they were bumfuzzled, described the route it was to take. Then came the part where HGR screwed up my name and phone number(which had all been updated and I was using updated info throughout- including on my checks).

I have a situation where HGR tried to get me to say I refused or failed delivery- the only reason in my opinion to ask for that was so that then Mssrs Frischorn etc could tell me I owed return shipping, storage, etc.

They never shipped via a shipper that had the equipment, skills, communication or professionalism to get it off their dock. Their long forkift they said in one of those three conversations had 5x" forks so they were having tipping issues and they were afraid of it, honestly. They were not willing to work with me, as I had already outlaid so much for the machine and shipping, lost time, the people I had dispatched to get it but couldn't because the terminal wasn't real big on making a commitment to time or communication or having any obligation but the van going in and out- I was willing to rent a forklift to get it- a Genie. Except you have to have permission to operate it on their property and CS/Dispatch in MI said "we'll get back to you on that but don't quite understand why we can't load it"- they did not know what straps were for, I pretty sure one of the forklifts was a Yale that could be in a museum somewhere- sure looked like it had a Continental or a Hercules in it.

I've rehashed this before, I'm just keeping replying because people have bothered to reply to be helpful, and so if this shows up via search engine operation they can learn:

-when I appraised HGR the terminal was incapable of what they'd been contracted to by HGR, HGR said why not pay to have it taken to another terminal to a ramp. So I looked around and I visited Chattanooga. There was one I had in mind that said "Do not use our name- no we won't give a rate- in taking the skid we'd be taking liability for any damage to the skid" I had others tell me things Vitran did before the buy out such that they would not load Central a machine that was capable of unloading it. If I moved the head to reduce height, I would destroy the wrapping and it looked like a pretty vital strap that was keeping it on the pallet was stretched like that. For the footprint of the machine, I believe 66x79 pallet was excessive.

-HGR has my money for shipping, my milling machine, and honestly- I've called locally, called Cuyahoga Co, and they all were as flabergasted after I sent scans of the documentation.

According to Mr. Frischcorn I owe HGR for a return shipment I didn't authorize, I owe them for storage, I'm out the money for the shipping, I'm out the money for the machine. I'm out the time and lost productivity. I'm out the people I paid and gave the forms to pick it up with and they were stood up or lied to or ignored or the terminal was too busy. I'm out every job I lost since I finally found which terminal and location it was definitely at(As late as Feb 21, it showed it was still in Ohio per Central's Customer service.

It's gotten even more obscenely ridiculous
I had some old lawyer wanting business sniff around me, asking questions. He was a major fan of HGR, and it saddens me to say, so was I, the sales guy I used that has mostly ignored me after it sold- I think out of 5 emails I've gotten back something, otherwise it was pass me off. I really liked dealing with Marshall and I even wrote a letter to the old bosses who sold HGR saying what a good job he did. He really had ethics in my opinion and seemed to care, but based on my experience and opinion it's a whole different ball game- it's still a matter of buying a truckload or a single machine, and the waiting game, but other than that- it's not even like dealing with the same company.

The old HGR didn't do this.

It has made me physically ill at this point. I had posted wanted ads and shared emails with people, and I don't know how many people wanted to gossip about this, or they were interested in a lathe and they'd hold off to see how this goes or they could just fix this and I never heard from them again or people emailing me personally about how they'd give HGR a piece of the mind. I mean I appreciated it, but it wasn't something I asked for. I've got 6 ssved voicemails from people who have an axe to grind or their own agenda, people wanting me to hold their hand as they wanted some kind of square column mill and were waitng but the had bobcats to load with.

I can't even tell the local plants if HGR is a viable option. Due your own due diligence. I appreciate the fact people cared about someone they know nothing about - but they offered to help or wanted to know how to help. The only think I can think of is email Marshall at HGR or HGR in general, though the site really only seems to show sales and buyers emails and contact.

I'm sure HGR sees this differently. I've made aware of that by people as well- but this is my experience.

The reality is I just really appreciate people taking time out to email me because they remembered me, or reply to the post. Thanks for the war stories, the commiseration, the support, the anecdotes, criticism, wisdom, experience, and knowledge, and the fact you still did it even though many of you don't know me and I try to remain a lurker and learn.

I can only repeat ad naeseum at this point, it's just in both threads, people seemed to intuit the connection and were kind enough to care. Thanks boys.

PM sent your way