Need some help on deciding what brand lathe to buy, and need help with vfd opitions?

As the title states, need some help with buying a larger lathe, I currently have a South Bend #9. It has done ok, but... it's not big enough to say the least. I have been a somewhat machinist for 20+ years, I say machinist, but reality I can make chips, not parts, I have seen a lot of really good machinist over the years, and I do not compare.
With saying that, I am able to do all of my government jobs at work, but I would like to be able to do everything at home. For a couple of reasons, being home more, and I feel that my current job will no longer be there, or be able to do my G jobs. I am always doing something, fixing stuff around the house, making side money, ect...
So, I thought I was going to step up to a South Bend Heavy 10, but I'm not sure now. I have never seen one in person, to know for sure, haven't found one close to go look at. Been looking on craigs list, facebook market place, and found a few that I was interested in, the Rockwells seem to go fast, heavy 10s are on pricey side. There are some many to choose from, here are some examples I liked.
What are some important thing to look at when buying used equipment? Check the head stock bearings with a long bar and indicator, look for a ridge on the bed ways.

And whats a good affordable VFD, only have single phase at the house.

Thank you.

Price wise, $1500 to $2500 high end.

Thanks.

Some things I would do: Check for slide wear... Run the cross and compound all the way back and adjust the gibs so they are just snug. Then run back in to where they are loosest and check for side to side play with an indicator. Check tailstock spindle side to side play when unclamped. Put an indicator on the chuck face and bring the tailstock up and clamp it down. Sweep the indicator on the tailstock spindle to see if it's on center height-wise. You can also set up an indicator on the tailstock and run it along the carriage ways to get some idea if the carriage ways are worn badly. Tailstock ways are *usually* in pretty good shape.

If the machine is under power, make sure everything works, power feed, lead screw, half nuts etc. and that there are no weird or very loud noises while the spindle is running.

The Monarch lathes like in your photo are excellent machines... I've run several of those from the 1940's era that have been used in every day production and never been rebuilt and are still in great shape.

I really like the 13 and 15" Clausing Colchesters if you can find one. The Clausing you photo-ed is okay too but not quite as pretty - we ran thousands of motorcycle wheel hubs on one of those with a tracer, it was okay. $2500 is going to be kind of tight unless you are lucky. Regal Leblond is good if you can live with the servo shift. Cincinnati Hydro-shift might go for less money, about equal quality.

Pretty unlikely you'll find a pacemaker or monarch for that price. I would not go with some old thing, even a bigname brand, just too awkward to run and too slow and tiny hole through the headstock.

The Hitachi VFDs at driveswarehouse are roughly a hundred bucks per horsepower. Most drives can run on single phase, but there are also drives that have single phase input. Once you know your motor horsepower then call them and they can help you select what you need(no affiliation). Some say to over size a 3 phase input vfd when running it on single phase. I also spoke to a Toshiba engineer who said over sizing or de rating is not necessary when running on single phase. I would err on the side of caution. There will be some wiring and parameters to set to get it running. Once you have infinite variable speed you will never go back!

One other thing to consider is the motors on those older lathes will for sure not be rated "inverter duty". I have converted several mills and lathes to vfd with no motor issues, but it could eventually be a problem. I think the main difference in an inverter duty motor is the insulation. Some others can correct me if I am wrong on this.

One problem you can run into with non inverter duty motors is overheating. You can easily slow the motor however you also slow the built in cooling fan. While producing very near rated hp.

It's just like everything else, its ok until you start getting into extremes. Think running at 20hz for 30 min non-stop and no additional cooling fan. Or trying to run it at 120hz.

Once again, unless you hit the jackpot of lathe buying, you have not nearly enough money.

"Some say to over size a 3 phase input vfd when running it on single phase. I also spoke to a Toshiba engineer who said over sizing or de rating is not necessary when running on single phase."

I suspect this 'engineer' at Toshiba was really a janitor was trying to impress you at the nightclub until he could slip something into your drink. It's always necessary to derate a VFD in those circumstances.

Well, I looked at my first SB Heavy 10 in person. Have to say, it reminded me of my SB 9, just not going to get it. What would be a decent 13" swing lathe should I be looking for in my price range, if any?

Thank you.

Visit a machine dealer in person tell the salesman what you need. Quite often they get machines in on trade that they don't want to deal with or shops will try to sell them old manual machines. If they don't have anything you want perhaps they will point you to someone that does. I have found that physically going there and talking to them is more likely to get you somewhere than calling or emailing.

I think Industrial Machinery in Columbus went under. Try Advanced Machinery in Dayton

GregSY said:

Once again, unless you hit the jackpot of lathe buying, you have not nearly enough money.

"Some say to over size a 3 phase input vfd when running it on single phase. I also spoke to a Toshiba engineer who said over sizing or de rating is not necessary when running on single phase."

I suspect this 'engineer' at Toshiba was really a janitor was trying to impress you at the nightclub until he could slip something into your drink. It's always necessary to derate a VFD in those circumstances.

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Not sure how he would slip something into my drink over the phone? Judging by the other things he helped me out with, that was a really smart janitor!

Not too smart unless you misunderstood what he was saying. Running on single phase is harder on the drives when they're designed for three phase input. While it might work for a time, it is pretty stressful on the components. I've never seen a drive not specifically designed for single phase input that didn't say to de-rate when running on single phase input.

The drives rectify the incoming power, converting to DC, then use switching transistors to simulate three phase AC. The only difference between single and three phase input is the size of the diodes and capacitors. Some of the latest drives are rated by the manufacturer for either single or three phase input. The engineer no doubt was talking about their current offerings.

Bill

Scrape up an extra $500 and go buy this Cadillac.

Clausing Milling Machine, Cadillac lathe - tools - by owner - sale

Agree that Cadillack looks decent.. I think a great deal fot that price SAE and metric threads..

or this machine:
Logan 14”x40” Metal lathe - tools - by owner - sale

Not that this has anything to do with the question at all but I was moving a 17" lathe across my driveway on skates, four of them, and when I was pushing from the back I noticed one roller came out. A fraction of a second later the lathe started tipping and fell over, luckily into my lawn. At the time I didn't have a forklift capable of picking it up so I called a wrecker. I watched the wrecker driver's face as he pulled into my yard and when he saw the lathe, he had an ear to ear grin which he tried hard to hide as he got out of the vehicle. Somehow a lathe on it's side in the grass is really a sad but humorous sight. A four point suspension is really bad on even the slightest uneven surface. Lathes are amazingly top heavy, so use caution. My machine shop teacher once told me if you are hauling a lathe at highway speed and it tips over, it is best to continue driving like nothing happened, the lathe would be worthless. Hopefully he wasn't talking from experience!

Stampede: I would say that the Cadillac is a pretty good deal if it checks out upon close scrutiny. One thing, does the short length hurt you? A 36" lathe is short. I would agree with others, you are going to have to lay more money on the table to find what you are looking for. Good luck.

JH

Youre in Ohio, gotta check out HGR Surplus. If you don't like what you see, wait a few weeks. My free advice is to avoid stuff that's been hanging around foreva because there are serious issues with it. They do have the 30 day guarantee though.

You sound just like me. I work from home and love to tinker. When I had my shop before down sizing, I looked on Craig's List for a simple lathe for the shop. I knew that South Bend was a good lathe and they lasted a long time. Well I guess I kink of fell into this deal. I guy just posted on Craig's List a 16" x 72" Sound Bend Lathe. I thought well that should be OK for the shop. I took the truck with me as I always do just in case we make a deal on the spot. When I got there he told me that he was going to give the lathe to a friend of his but his friend would never come and get it. He decided he had waited long enough and just wanted it out of the shop because he needed the area. It was really dusty but seemed tobe in good shape. The ways were all clean with no apparent damage. It was 3-phase, 4-speed transmission, Cogged belt drive, Taper attachment, 1 spare chuck, 2 steady rests and lots of other parts. I thought there was no way I could afford this deal. He Said very Firmly to me, "$300.00 but you have to take it now". I couldn't get the cash out fast enough. The machine is older but I love it! The Serial number is 49379HAC. I am not 100% on the letters because I don't know if it has the larger or standard throat. It did come with a whole set of Collets and two Collet bars. If you shop right I really think you could get one heck of a lathe for less than your budget. I have a 1 ton pick up and it had no problem hauling it. Getting it off was the hard part. I would say check the listings in your state. It would be worth the drive. Good Luck! Oh yea, you can run a 3-phase lathe using a VDF to create the 3rd phase from your single phase. It will have to be larger than the HP of your motor. I would recommend Automationdirect.com to get the correct VFD. They have great Technical support to guide you to the correct VFD. Their prices are about the best out there too and shipping is usually free and shipped the next day.

I just noticed you are from Ohio. My son lives in Columbus. We used to live in the Dayton area. I used to work with all the GM and other automakers in Ohio. There were a lot of machine shops supporting them that downsized or went under when they all move out. Check the local Craig's List in Dayton and Cincinnati where all the Automotive plants were. There are some in Franklin, OH now.

matt_isserstedt said:

Youre in Ohio, gotta check out HGR Surplus. If you don't like what you see, wait a few weeks. My free advice is to avoid stuff that's been hanging around foreva because there are serious issues with it. They do have the 30 day guarantee though.

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HGR.....If for no other reason you can look at the pics, see the weights, and get an idea of pricing.

Always lots of manual lathes listed, and your probably only a couple of hours away.



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