Are needle bearing needles hardened?
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Country
    GERMANY
    Posts
    1,710
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    16
    Likes (Received)
    290

    Default Are needle bearing needles hardened?

    I need oversize needle bearing needles and cannot find any.
    So I thought I buy the next size up and grind them down in an OD grinder. Since I need to grab them in a collet I also have to buy them longer.
    So to make 2.55 mm diameter needles I need to buy a 3 mm or even 4 mm diameter needles.
    The main thing I worry about is that the needles may be hardened and that I will grind the hardened layer away.
    From 3 down to 2.55 may not be a problem, but from 4 mm down to 2.55?

    Any input appreciated.

    Martin

    PS I guess the information will be buried in the infinite information of FAG catalog or the likes. But I could not find it .....I never can.....

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    869
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    464
    Likes (Received)
    435

    Default

    Unquestionably they will be hardened. But your question should be are they case hardened (i.e. The surface layer only) or through hardened.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    14,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4552
    Likes (Received)
    6705

    Default

    Buy one stick in vice, hit with hammer, results should be self explanatory, i would expect it to vary from supplier to supplier.

  4. Likes pressbrake1, Lt. Swarf, Dave G. liked this post
  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,835
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1829
    Likes (Received)
    5509

    Default

    Are you sure grinding the needles is the best choice? I would look at grinding one of the races to use a standard needle, if that's possible.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    FINLAND
    Posts
    1,797
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    497
    Likes (Received)
    821

    Default

    AFAIK custom sized "needles" from SKF were quite reasonably priced.

    And SKF uses trough hardened 52100 for most of the parts, including needles.
    Surface hardened bearing parts or races are more of a Timken thing.

  7. Likes Wild West, Dave G. liked this post
  8. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,835
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1829
    Likes (Received)
    5509

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    AFAIK custom sized "needles" from SKF were quite reasonably priced.
    Some time ago I tried to find a vendor for needles and rollers, if you have a specific website for such it would be great to post the link.

  9. #7
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    FINLAND
    Posts
    1,797
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    497
    Likes (Received)
    821

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Some time ago I tried to find a vendor for needles and rollers, if you have a specific website for such it would be great to post the link.
    Sorry, can't remember details and it was in any case some local distributor that won't be much of help unless you can speak Finnish

  10. Likes adama liked this post
  11. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,835
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1829
    Likes (Received)
    5509

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Sorry, can't remember details and it was in any case some local distributor that won't be much of help unless you can speak Finnish
    Ilmatyynyalukseni on täynnä ankeriaita.

  12. Likes Mstcnc, BugRobotics, MattiJ, tdmidget liked this post
  13. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    215
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    37
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default

    this place probably has your size in stock, M2 blanks, just cut them to length.

    WILLIAM T. HUTCHINSON CO. HSSBLANKS UNION, New Jersey (N.J.)

  14. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    14,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4552
    Likes (Received)
    6705

    Default

    Not just that but if high speed or high stress they need better than ground finish and the corners need to be just right. FYI Most the big bearing suppliers have direct links to source this stuff you still wont yet find listed on the web, one of thoes few remaining distributor only things. Have never got custom needles, but have got custom rollers.

  15. Likes Milland liked this post
  16. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    France
    Posts
    1,636
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    292
    Likes (Received)
    656

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin P View Post
    I need oversize needle bearing needles and cannot find any.
    For a Deckel spindle ?
    Can't you ask Franz Singer where he buys the ones he uses ?

    Plus I seem to recall I read somewhere that needles weren't ground perfectly cylindrical on their whole length to avoid stress on the ends.
    Not sure though.
    Last edited by TNB; 03-02-2018 at 10:23 AM.

  17. Likes adama liked this post
  18. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    1,415
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    90
    Likes (Received)
    538

    Default

    I would have thought that centreless grinding is the way to go for this type of work. Trying to hold them in a collet and grind on a conventional OD grinder seems a bit problematic. Once set up, a centreless grinder could do hundreds in the time it takes you to set one up in a cylindrical grinder.

  19. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    14,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4552
    Likes (Received)
    6705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TNB View Post
    For a Deckel spindle ?
    Can't you ask Franz Singer where he buys the one he uses ?

    Plus I seem to recall I read somewhere that needles weren't ground perfectly cylindrical on their whole length to avoid ends stress.
    Not sure though.
    Yep, they can not be simply square ended, theres a lot going on if there too work well and even more if you want to run them even remotely fast and with needle rollers fast is slower than most realise!

  20. #14
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Iowa
    Posts
    10,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3616
    Likes (Received)
    4274

    Default

    When I was in automotive, our needles would come from SKF in about a 2 gallon container. IIRC, 70K in each. The needles are centerless ground and lapped. I'm thinking finish was 4 or better.
    JR

  21. Likes digger doug liked this post
  22. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    ch
    Posts
    2,100
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    194
    Likes (Received)
    274

    Default

    i keep hearing about oversized balls, but when i wanted to get some recently, my skf supplier didnt have any. there were balls in many sizes, but not oversized like + 0.01 mm.

  23. #16
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Pittsford, NY
    Posts
    1,054
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    724
    Likes (Received)
    680

    Default

    I know nothing about the application, but a .1" needle is .00039 oversized. Do the rollers come in decimal inch sizes?

  24. #17
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    FINLAND
    Posts
    1,797
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    497
    Likes (Received)
    821

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels17 View Post
    I know nothing about the application, but a .1" needle is .00039 oversized. Do the rollers come in decimal inch sizes?
    Inch sizes are available but usually in 1/16” multiples, not 1/10”

  25. #18
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Iowa
    Posts
    10,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3616
    Likes (Received)
    4274

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Inch sizes are available but usually in 1/16” multiples, not 1/10”
    It all depends on quantity. If you buy enough, you can get almost anything you want.
    JR

  26. Likes SVE Performance liked this post
  27. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Saskatchewan
    Posts
    10,236
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1394
    Likes (Received)
    3688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    i keep hearing about oversized balls, but when i wanted to get some recently, my skf supplier didnt have any. there were balls in many sizes, but not oversized like + 0.01 mm.
    Check precisionballs.com

  28. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Indiana
    Posts
    12,979
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    689
    Likes (Received)
    3928

    Default

    Much depends upon the application, which was not stated in post #1.

    I needed a 3/16" diameter x 3/16" hard roller for a B&S releasing tap holder last week. In my drawer of 3/16" steel dowels are some 3/16" bearing needles with a polished finish and rounded ends. I used one to make my roller. I put it in a 5C collet in a Hardinge lathe and squared one end with a carbide bit. Then I used a carbide P1 cutoff bit to cut off a little more than 3/16" and faced that end to the final length. The needle was hard all the way through, but carbide could cut it at high speed.

    Many years ago, I wanted to try needle kingpin bearings in a 12,000 pound front axle for a heavy truck. That was what you might call a low RPM application. The stock bushings were 1/16" wall, the king pin was hardened steel with a centerless ground finish. The knuckle was forged steel with reamed kingpin holes, not very hard in that part of the knuckle. I bought a few dozen 1/16" drill blanks and they worked well enough to try out the idea.

    HS drill and reamer blanks are available in many diameters, but they do not have polished surfaces and the diameter tolerances are probably more loose than bearing needles would have. Not important if you have to reduce the diameter, and the key thing is that you would not need to reduce it very much.

    Larry


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •