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new addition, big for me lathe

neckyzips

Plastic
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Location
Deltaville
hi guys, and gals, this has always been my go to forum for odd questions and research, its a great place!

i just acquired a Cincinnati 12 1/2 while i am cleaning it up changing fluids, and working out a top slide issue... i need to ask a beat to death question...
what do i need to look for in a rotary phase converter. from what i have read it is a 3 hp motor on the lathe but it does not say on the plate. Cash is of the essence at the moment with all that is going on in the world, so i kind of need an economical solution to get going. i do have a small mill that will run off of this too, but not at the same time. i am trying to check with the power company to get a quote on 3 phase power since the 3 phase runs right through my yard to a shop down the way, but after hours of wasting on hold i keep giving up, and i assume it will be out of my range anyway.

thanks for any help!
joe
 
Don't even bother asking about 3 phase power....the power company is very proud of it.

Order a phase converter off ebay, North American brand. Find your own idler motor locally for cheap, if you can, to save money. That's as cheap as you're gonna get unless someone gives you one.
 
Don't even bother asking about 3 phase power....the power company is very proud of it.

Order a phase converter off ebay, North American brand. Find your own idler motor locally for cheap, if you can, to save money. That's as cheap as you're gonna get unless someone gives you one.

So the ones on ebay do not come with the idler motor?
 
If the 3-phase runs through your yard anyway, it wouldn't hurt to check. A lot of times it's running the cabling that eats up a lot of the cost. Different power companies have different rules as to what kind of client they'll do a drop for, amount of service, etc.

Can't hurt to ask,

Best regards,

-Ron
 
hi guys, and gals, this has always been my go to forum for odd questions and research, its a great place!

i just acquired a Cincinnati 12 1/2 while i am cleaning it up changing fluids, and working out a top slide issue... i need to ask a beat to death question...
what do i need to look for in a rotary phase converter. from what i have read it is a 3 hp motor on the lathe but it does not say on the plate. Cash is of the essence at the moment with all that is going on in the world, so i kind of need an economical solution to get going. i do have a small mill that will run off of this too, but not at the same time. i am trying to check with the power company to get a quote on 3 phase power since the 3 phase runs right through my yard to a shop down the way, but after hours of wasting on hold i keep giving up, and i assume it will be out of my range anyway.

thanks for any help!
joe

Small machines, one shift or not-even? You dont even want the billing tariff plan for utility mains 3-P if the installation was free.

An RPC with 5 HP idler should do, but will prolly end-up being "marginal". Starting load matters for EACH of the load-motor(s) AND the RPC idler itself.

Watcha could do is scout TWO 5 HP, or a 7 1/2. Even a 7 1/2 PLUS a 5 HP.

Start one, drop the "supplementary idler" online once up to speed. Gives yah more flexibility AND easier load starting that way. Also "future proofing", as-in small mill now, something larger, later - or a machine that you DO end-up running at the same time. Coolant pumps, dust collectors, air-compressors, etc.

Building a starter/control is easy as well.

See the "stickies", "Right here, on PM".
 
Around here, they seem to want over $300/month in 'demand charge' whether you even use the 3 phase of not. Then, there is the cost of actually running it to you which starts at around $3,500....even if all they need to do is flip a switch.
 
Around here, they seem to want over $300/month in 'demand charge' whether you even use the 3 phase of not. Then, there is the cost of actually running it to you which starts at around $3,500....even if all they need to do is flip a switch.

"Demand charge" - and a fancy meter looks as if it could emulate a Padisha Emperor's Death star weapons systems and knock down Chicom spy drones - has been on Dominion Virginia Power residential split-phase for some time now as well.

Keeping that from biting mudholes any larger than it MUST inta my retirement income's ass is why the multiple-idler rig was born.

10 HP, 7.5 HP, the 5 HP still "borrowed" out of a machine not yet ready for full-time use 'til I find a "deal" I like.

Neat stuff, Copper wire.

:D
 
kinda what i figured, i am on dominion too... same pwr company that doubles my bill every January to the penny... oddly.

there is a local company (was local i should say Greensboro NC where i used to live) that is building one for a reasonable cost, promises it will be balanced etc to run the lathe and mill, i spoke to a shop that has his work, they say no issues and he has been doing it for 40 years, so i feel it is worth the risk.
 
kinda what i figured, i am on dominion too... same pwr company that doubles my bill every January to the penny... oddly.

there is a local company (was local i should say Greensboro NC where i used to live) that is building one for a reasonable cost, promises it will be balanced etc to run the lathe and mill, i spoke to a shop that has his work, they say no issues and he has been doing it for 40 years, so i feel it is worth the risk.

Should be fine.

Most folks get the hang of it by the third one, if not the first, off the back of plenty of info, and the generally forgiving nature RPC's "just have".

Most basic is just a 3-P motor, rope start. Nothing else. Caps can introduce as much grief as "balance", some situations, potential or time-delay relays just more s**t as can fail.

OK.. mine are complex.. but then again? The pension is from a dominant-carrier yelly-phone companee, specialty submarine telegraphy. We had invented clever ways to mess with electrons whilst Edison was still usin' gas lights and candles.

:)
 
Before I had 3PH, my goto solution was to put an inexpensive Automation Direct VFD on the machine. GS1 or GS2 or GS3. You can make 60 Hz or you can make whatever frequency you want.

Otherwise if the lathe is seldom used, look for a cheap military portable generator. Then you can have power in a blackout and run your lathe. I paid $300 for a MEP-016D. It's a 3kW generator that can do various different single phase and three phase outputs. Loud. But as a US military generator, I don't think it would have any problem running your 3HP motor.

MEP016D 3kW Military Diesel Generator ⋆ Green Mountain Generators
 
Should be fine.

Most folks get the hang of it by the third one, if not the first, off the back of plenty of info, and the generally forgiving nature RPC's "just have".

Most basic is just a 3-P motor, rope start. Nothing else. Caps can introduce as much grief as "balance", some situations, potential or time-delay relays just more s**t as can fail.

OK.. mine are complex.. but then again? The pension is from a dominant-carrier yelly-phone companee, specialty submarine telegraphy. We had invented clever ways to mess with electrons whilst Edison was still usin' gas lights and candles.

:)


Where in va are you? Maybe I can talk you into helping me build one��
 
Dangerous thought!

At the rate I fiddle-fart about changing my mind and re-do-ing my OWN one - more re-do and try sumthin' new than ever running stuff with it? (Mind - I have a 10 HP Phase-Perfect as well. Had TWO, gave one away for "research".)

That could delay gettin' your RPC done until a week or so after the twelfth of "never"!

:D

:cheers: lets see how the el cheapo one works out, whats the worst that can happen, it eats my 60 yo motor?
 
:cheers: lets see how the el cheapo one works out, whats the worst that can happen, it eats my 60 yo motor?

Nah. A nasty VFD can dooo that, but an RPC is nice clean sine-waves, no switching artifacts nor high-frequencies atall.

Worst-case, a generated leg too far out and yah have a slight imbalance in motor heating. BFD, but it IS why they figure best-case is only 91% of load-motor nameplate, sustainable in long-term continuous duty. "BFD squared" We don't ordinarily run our motors anywhere near 90% load. All we do is waste a bit of power that still comes waaay cheaper in power bill than mains 3-Phase

Poor load-motor starting performance is about all as goes wonky with an RPC, and it is right obvious more idler is needed when that happens. Or just running some other machines, unloaded, same as if they were "in the plan" supplementary idlers.

Been "done to death" RPC's have - and not ONLY "Right here, on PM". Basically, they JFW, some better than others, but never by huge differences.

The "hero" as saves the day? The 3-P load motor. They ain't really as "picky" as all that about an imbalanced generated leg.

Or yah couldn't make RPC idlers out of 'em, either- let alone run 'em "third-assed" off a STATIC pretend-to-be-converter!

:D
 
Nah. A nasty VFD can dooo that, but an RPC is nice clean sine-waves, no switching artifacts nor high-frequencies atall.

Worst-case, a generated leg too far out and yah have a slight imbalance in motor heating. BFD, but it IS why they figure best-case is only 91% of load-motor nameplate, sustainable in long-term continuous duty. "BFD squared" We don't ordinarily run our motors anywhere near 90% load. All we do is waste a bit of power that still comes waaay cheaper in power bill than mains 3-Phase

Poor load-motor starting performance is about all as goes wonky with an RPC, and it is right obvious more idler is needed when that happens. Or just running some other machines, unloaded, same as if they were "in the plan" supplementary idlers.

Been "done to death" RPC's have - and not ONLY "Right here, on PM". Basically, they JFW, some better than others, but never by huge differences.

The "hero" as saves the day? The 3-P load motor. They ain't really as "picky" as all that about an imbalanced generated leg.

Or yah couldn't make RPC idlers out of 'em, either- let alone run 'em "third-assed" off a STATIC pretend-to-be-converter!

:D

ok, if i understand this right, RPC is better than VFD, any ol RPC will get the job done, worst case the lathe starts slow with a heavy chuck etc, and the old 3 hp on the lathe is stupid simple and likely not to care so much about a leg being unbalanced; and RPC is much less expensive to run than main line 3 phase would be just to have. i am assuming the same to be true with the clausing 8540.

now what happens when a nice used haas V1 mill shows up:D
 
Nah. A nasty VFD can dooo that, but an RPC is nice clean sine-waves, no switching artifacts nor high-frequencies atall.

Worst-case, a generated leg too far out and yah have a slight imbalance in motor heating. BFD, but it IS why they figure best-case is only 91% of load-motor nameplate, sustainable in long-term continuous duty. "BFD squared" We don't ordinarily run our motors anywhere near 90% load. All we do is waste a bit of power that still comes waaay cheaper in power bill than mains 3-Phase

Poor load-motor starting performance is about all as goes wonky with an RPC, and it is right obvious more idler is needed when that happens. Or just running some other machines, unloaded, same as if they were "in the plan" supplementary idlers.

Been "done to death" RPC's have - and not ONLY "Right here, on PM". Basically, they JFW, some better than others, but never by huge differences.

The "hero" as saves the day? The 3-P load motor. They ain't really as "picky" as all that about an imbalanced generated leg.

Or yah couldn't make RPC idlers out of 'em, either- let alone run 'em "third-assed" off a STATIC pretend-to-be-converter!

:D

ok, if i understand this right, RPC is better than VFD, any ol RPC will get the job done, worst case the lathe starts slow with a heavy chuck etc, and the old 3 hp on the lathe is stupid simple and likely not to care so much about a leg being unbalanced; and RPC is much less expensive to run than main line 3 phase would be just to have. i am assuming the same to be true with the clausing 8540.

now what happens when a nice used haas V1 mill shows up:D
 








 
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