New to forum: Toolmaker getting into die repair looking for insight.

[ToolFixer]

Hi all,

I'm a tool maker that just got himself into welding and hand working forming/shearing dies.

My background is all work on grinding machines cranking handles or programming toolpaths for progressive die tooling. Anyone have some insight into the role I'm getting myself into? I've actual never seen the exact process of welding then hand working dies and I couldn't find much information online. I'd love to have a little knowledge about the process to get some tools ordered and not immediately look like a dumb***.

Thanks!

 

[AD Design]

I don't understand quite what you mean by "hand working" on a die repair after welding. Beyond the initial return of geometry by milling/turning/grinding I can only imagine using hand held tools with abrasives for finishing. If you've been a toolmaker then you should be fairly clear about what it means to polish the working surface on a form punch or die section. If not, there's plenty of info available on the stones used, the progression, direction, and final polishing with diamond paste if/when called for. The makers of those abrasives have lots of info on their websites because they want their products purchased/used on the job.

If you've never seen tool steels welded then you better have some good reference reading because it's not something that works out well by trial and error. A poorly welded cutting edge can easily chip off and travel down the die progression destroying other components with each press stroke. I've welded many punches and die sections but that was only to finish the production run while I started making a new component to replace it. That's not to say a welded component can't be trusted it was just the company policy didn't feel it was worth the risk in long production runs.

Quite honestly I can't really understand why welding and "hand working" repairs would be a regular part of the job. In my limited experience dies/tooling is only welded when fatigue has caused it to fracture or what it comes in contact with causes premature wear. This can be from using the wrong material, poor heat treating, or severe service. Welding tooling has always been considered more of an emergency than a SOP. Perhaps if you offer more details on what you'll encounter and what equipment/process/methods you're unsure of more help can be offered.

You'll pardon my asking but since this is your first post and the way your questions are worded are you a supervisor seeking departmental insight to something you're not familiar enough with? If so that's ok too.

 

[Machines!]

I work with molds that have 10-20 cavities in a 3-inch diameter. We have thousands of these molds and a handful of mills running 24/7 making new ones. For major repairs, worn lands are built up with a micro laser welder and a room full of women finish them with spotting ink and pencil grinders. The lands are composed of many different converging angles and it's quite difficult to get the geometry right after damage.

 

[Hobby Shop]

I’ve never seen a section get replaced unless it was in 2 or more pieces. All trim line and form is welded, reclaimed/repaired on Prog dies, forging dies and automotive line dies. Eventually, you get to the point where you can only shim and grind a section so much and it needs to be welded from there on out. A section with 7 buttons over form with 15”s of trim line isn’t going to get replaced.

If you’re talking about grinding on a punch or cavity to repair an automotive Class “A” outer surface die, the learning curve is going to be steep and not something you’re going to get overnight....some people never get it. If you're fixing some trim line after it’s been welded, we use Flexarm & rotary file to get the trim line back to original.

Die buttons over form are originally cut on the machine and repaired by hand with a die grinder and stones. Not that it doesn’t happen somewhere in the world but at all the places I’ve worked, I’ve never seen a button get shimmed and sent back the mill to get recut. They’re always resharpened by hand.

Andy

 

[ToolFixer]

I’ve never seen a section get replaced unless it was in 2 or more pieces. All trim line and form is welded, reclaimed/repaired on Prog dies, forging dies and automotive line dies. Eventually, you get to the point where you can only shim and grind a section so much and it needs to be welded from there on out. A section with 7 buttons over form with 15”s of trim line isn’t going to get replaced.

If you’re talking about grinding on a punch or cavity to repair an automotive Class “A” outer surface die, the learning curve is going to be steep and not something you’re going to get overnight....some people never get it. If you're fixing some trim line after it’s been welded, we use Flexarm & rotary file to get the trim line back to original.

Die buttons over form are originally cut on the machine and repaired by hand with a die grinder and stones. Not that it doesn’t happen somewhere in the world but at all the places I’ve worked, I’ve never seen a button get shimmed and sent back the mill to get recut. They’re always resharpened by hand.

Andy

This sounds exactly like what this job is. Their main tools are a TIG setup and a flex arm. The only other tools are a crappy manual mill it seems like is used mostly by maintenance, a decent lathe that doesn't seem to ever get used, and a surface grinder that only ever grinds pads.

It's automotive forms but luckily not Class A exterior they're internal parts with a fair amount of tolerance.

The tooling they used in their flex arm is burrs with a stand off pilot leaving .003 to .005 surplus on the trim line. I wasn't able to watch them finishing an edge do they just bring it in with stones from there?

This is actually standard work for them. The bulk of the work actually happens at end of run. They do this work before sending the die to storage so it's production ready whenever the line is ordered again. Sounds like it's rare for dies to get sent out of service beyond this.