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    Default New machine, best bang for the buck

    Hi,this is my first post, hope i知 in the right section. I知 out for a new machine for my workshop and have received quotes from 4 manufacturers at this time.

    Im looking at a 3 axis high rapid machine, will run mostly aluminium but some steel and ss. There is a limited roof space where i want to put it so these are the models im looking at:

    Haas DM-2
    Fanuc robodrill D21MiB5
    Brother Speedio S500
    Mazak VC primos 400.

    The brother and the Mazak is by far the most exensive of them, then the Fanuc and finally Haas. I live i Europe so Haas is more expensive here but still.

    Does anyone have any experience with any of these machines? I like the larger envelope on the Haas but i dont want to buy something that breaks down all the time. I知 not running 24/7 but there can be some ball nose end mill finishing jobs that require 4-5 hours of constant machining.

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avikeneng View Post
    The brother and the Mazak is by far the most exensive of them
    You get what you pay for. If you want a really good machine, don't buy garbage, and therefore remove Haas off of that list.

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    Take a look at the Doosan DNM series machines if you want the biggest bang for the buck.

    Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    You get what you pay for. If you want a really good machine, don't buy garbage, and therefore remove Haas off of that list.
    Yes that痴 true. So Haas is a no go then. But what about Fanuc? Its a bit shorter on the strokes than the Haas but on paper almost the same as Brother, but about 12k less the price. Maybe they take it back when it comes to spareparts

    Thanks.

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    I have地t even looked at Doosan. Is that a good machine? It痴 from Taiwan right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avikeneng View Post
    I have’nt even looked at Doosan. Is that a good machine? It’s from Taiwan right?
    Doosan are from South Korea. Way better than Haas, very stout machines. Just a little biased here since I work for them but in 40+ years I have run or worked on most brands. I would at least tell you to take a look at them.

    Paul

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    Ok. I sure will, it will be interesting to see how the price differs from the rest.

    Thank you

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    There's nothing wrong with Haas machines. As with any machine if you keep up with maintenance it will perform as advertised.

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    Here we go again .

    [fair warning -- I own an S700X1]

    OK, unless you are severely space-restricted, or building out a set of machining cells, skip the S500 and go to the S700. It is only a little more $, but much more reasonable work envelope.

    DM2 -- I compared this machine with the S700X1 before I bought, and went with the Brother for some "soft" reasons like reliability, etc., but also some "hard" reasons like tool size restrictions -- DM2 max tool size is 2.5" OD x 7" length. WTF?!? My 3D taster is 7.6" gage length, and I often have reamers or XL drills that end up >7". Add the cost of the 15k RPM spindle and other things you need to get it to look like a Speedio S700 and a lot of the cost difference goes away. The DM2 is 40-taper, which is nice, but it is still an <6,000# machine so it's not like it's going to be as robust as a regular 10,000# 40-taper machine.

    Doosan -- very good machine, a nearby shop has one and I'm impressed. But, they do not (or didn't in 2016) offer a hyperspeed 30-taper like the DM2 or Speedio.

    Mazak -- no data, but when I looked at Mazak in 2016 the comparable compact 30-taper Mazak was right at 50% more than the Brother.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    Great info. The Brother looks really nice but tears on my budget. I dont know the pricing of a Brother in the US but here in Europe they are expensive like $80000 base price for a S500 without any options at all.

    For that size of machine i was hoping of getting away a bit cheaper. I have a limit in height ( 95 ) but if theres smaller parts like a cable channel on the machine that needs more room i can rebuild the roof when the machine is installed. Width and depth there痴 no problem.

    Thanks

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    if you have the room i would look at vf2ss ... there a nice machine for the money .. yes there is better machines out there but non I have found for the price,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    You get what you pay for. If you want a really good machine, don't buy garbage, and therefore remove Haas off of that list.
    I know I am going to regret this but. When was the last time one of your replies was not negative?

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    Ok. Would you recommend the vf2ss over the DM-2? What makes the Dm2 no.2 in this case? I really like the rapids on that one. And hopefully it could stay within the tolerances to
    Thanks

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    Of those machines I would go for the Robodrill. I'm in Sweden and was close to buying a new machine in this class about a year ago.
    Disclaimer: I have a height limitation in an elevator which crossed some machines out early in the process.
    Also Fanuc Sweden have a few demo machines which is defiantly good bang for the buck when the sell them (got a good offer). Maybe also true for the other brands, but that I do not know.

    /Staffan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avikeneng View Post
    What makes the Dm2 no.2 in this case? I really like the rapids on that one.
    Don't just look at the rapids speed, look at the acceleration. It does no good to have a very high rapids speed if it takes "awhile" to get up to speed such that the machine rarely hits that top rapids speed -- Z-axis especially since that is a factor with very tool change.

    Multiple hours running ball endmill? You want way more than 10k RPM spindle IMO, and look closely at the machine's thermal comp capability.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    if your running big numbers of small parts the rapids might come into play ,,, like I have posted before I fixture most everything and there for have vary few tool changes and vary short distances between parts. I run a job that takes a hour and a half run time and has 6 tool changes and going from 50% rapids to 100% saves me less than 3 min ..

    If you want to save time your better off trying to do it in the 75% non machining time with a VMC than trying to pick apart the 25% your machines running .

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    Are you doing production or one offs short run? If you are doing any prodction the Brother would really pull ahead in this race. The Brother would also be a lot less electrical load.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    if your running big numbers of small parts the rapids might come into play ,,, like I have posted before I fixture most everything and there for have vary few tool changes and vary short distances between parts. I run a job that takes a hour and a half run time and has 6 tool changes and going from 50% rapids to 100% saves me less than 3 min ..

    If you want to save time your better off trying to do it in the 75% non machining time with a VMC than trying to pick apart the 25% your machines running .
    I do the same where I make custom fixtures to hold as many parts as is practical. I went from a machine with 1900 ipm rapids to one with 2000 ipm rapids, same spindle speed, and saved 40% on my cycle time. Cycle time is affected by way more than rapids. The Brother or Robodrill will machine circles around the others until you run out of power or rigidity, which won't be very often.

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    The brother is great but it is NOT a machine for doing meaningful amounts of surfacing, much less four or five hours of ball mill finishing, especially if the parts are small. Rumour has it you can get it to surface okay with the high accuracy mode B2 and tweaking the settings, but not out of the box, and I've never really been able to. You either blow the accuracy or slow down to 10ipm in the corners.

    They're amazing for what they're designed to do, but surface isn't that.

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    Also, there's a reason Haas is the number 1 brand of CNC machines. Are there people dissatisfied with them, yes, but there are a whole bunch more that are satisfied. I've used a bunch of different machines, the thing that sets Haas apart, to me, is the control. They are accurate and can run for hours on end. There are more rigid machines but dollar for dollar Haas is going to come out on top as long as it fits your requirements.

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