New (to me) Cadillac Lathe - Where To Start?

Not a machinist, so excuse (correct) any misused jargon... but I am looking to learn. I got a deal (at least I think so) on an old Cadillac lathe which I couldn't pass up. To my untrained eye it looks to be in good condition. The ways looked good, the levers are easily moved and the hand wheels spin freely. The only thing I noticed is the dove tail on the cross slide appears to have been run into the chuck jaws at some time because the dove tail is a bit mucked up. I don't actually know what I'd use the dove tail for so I don't really know what I am missing. With the machine came the collet closer, 4 jaw, 3 jaw, tail stock, steady rest, follower rest and a quick change tool post (KDK brand).

I got her home last night and am in the process of running three phase over to the machine. Before I do any cutting, however, I would like to learn a bit about the machine, how to use it, how to take care of it, where to oil, etc. I am looking for a manual for this machine (YAM 1428) or similar because I understand it may be a knockoff of something else. I've tried searching in the manuals area but was unable to find anything.

A few other questions...

• As I understand from all that I have read over time, it's really important to get this thing level so it doesn't cut a taper. The leveling 'feet' currently on the machine are just all thread cut at about 3 inches. This all thread sat on 3" aluminum blocks. It seemed kind of strange to me. You can sort of see this in the pictures. Is this ok? What would be best here?
• I've been trying to clean this thing up a bit with Simple Green but it hardly makes a dent. I remember seeing an old guy take this tube of cream and rub it on his mill table and it brightened it up nicely. I would like to do that on all the unpainted areas. Any idea what this cream may have been?
• Any other maintenance type tasks I should be doing before firing this up?

Start with the Search link at the top...there's plenty of info here and if you're new, take advantage of it.

You might consider starting by cleaning it. I like diesel/kerosene.

You have what appears to be a decent machine, and it sounds like you got a good tooling package as well, at least for stuff that gets hard to find sometimes in the aftermarket arena. Regarding leveling, the intent is to have the bedways straight, and not twisted. Absolute level is not so important, but use of the level to take the twist out is often most easily done using level as reference. You need a GOOD level for this, at least something with .005"/ft or .005"/10" resolution. A decent carpenter level will get you within a couple of ballparks, but something like a Starrett machinist's level (several lengths available) is far better. Search this website/forum for previous threads on the best practices for lathe setup/leveling.

There is nothing wrong with the feet as shown, as long as you have the ability to adjust them easily for leveling. I have some vibration-absorbing pad-type materials in my lathe feet, but it in't clear to me that they provide any particular advantage in long-term operation.

Check all lubrication levels before running. Check the electrical connections to make sure terminals and connections are tight; on a used machine, they may have loosened up over time and need a little attention.

Yes, find a manual. Someone else may have a good lead on that, or for a clone of this machine.

Also welcome to PM. You should pin your location down a bit more specifically, at least to a state, or you may get no end of grief regarding adherence to the forum rules.

Jorsborn: All of the above is good info. In addition, I would recommend that you change the oils in the various boxes, such as headstock, carriage, and threading gearbox. This way, you can be certain of their condition. By draining the boxes, you will know that any coolant or skanky oils are gone, and welcome to the forum. Good luck.

JH

YAM is the same 14" lathe so manuals and parts are interchangeable. Greer Machinery in your area may be able to help with a manual or parts. The Cadillac is a good Taiwanese machine and used, at a dealer, generally sell for 3 to 5K . Yours looks to be in the asking price of 3 or 3.5k range with the tooling. If it had Readouts maybe up to 4.5K asking.

Other thoughts, check the motor mounts as they tend to loosen if not maintained. You also may want to replace the belts if they are worn or stretched. Most good auto parts stores can match them up for you so no need to go to a dealer. Go shorter if they measure in between a size.

The company that makes that toolbit holder is out of business be still plenty of them on E-Bay.

Awesome! That makes me feel good. I essentially got this lathe for $1750... about $1825 after you include the stake bed truck rental and fuel. It felt like a good deal and according to your estimates it now seems like a smoking deal.

Bummer on the tool holder. I wonder if it might be a good idea to flip the tool holder and buy something new that I can purchase accessories for without having to depend on second hand availability.

Thanks! Lots of good information. As far as lubrication goes, what should I be using? I imagine the manual would tell me just what to use. I would really like to find a source for the manual...

Hi. I ran one just like yours maybe 30 years ago! As I recall, it seemed like a nice, easy to use lathe. As far as the dovetail on the cross slide I think you are referring to, I don't imagine you will be needing it! I think it is to mount tooling for production work.

you can find the US Army training manual on line about how to run a lathe. Good basic information for the beginner.
Also search for South Bend book "how to run a lathe"
Bil lD.

I could not find the lathe manual link. Here is the army milling machine manual. Maybe hunt around their site to find the lathe one?

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/pdf/milling-machine.pdf

Greetings.

$2K? You scored. I've got a newer version of almost the same machine, and it cost me a fair bit more than that.
I do have a manual for it, but it'll take a few days to scan in. PM me, and we can work it out.
My understanding is that Cadillacs are Taiwanese clones of one of the Mori-Seki engine lathes. I've certainly seen Moris that looked just the same, but I never stopped to get the number off of one of them to be able to say "they're clones of *this* Mori..."
You also see them as "Wacheon" lathes. Same machine, and I think they're both made by Yang Machinery.

The aluminum blocks under the feet are because you're in America. The original Mori was designed in Japan in the ?70's?. They're shorter than we are, and were much shorter back then. So the original Mori was (and is) a pretty low to the ground machine. Which is why you usually see them up on blocks, to get the handles up to where they don't trash your back after a day. Mine has blocks under it too.

For most things on mine, I use Vactra #2. I just went and grabbed the manual while I was thinking about it.
The "Official" recommendations are:
Headstock: Keep the oil above the lines in the sight glasses. Needs 10 liters (or mine does) Recommended: BP Energoil HP32, Mobil Velocite 12, Shell Turbo Oil T32
Feed gearbox: oil twice a day when you're using it. Mobil DTE Oil Light. or Shell Tellus 32
Apron: Keep it above the sight glass on the apron, needs 1.5 liters. Moble Vactra #2, or Shell Tona Oil 56
Change gearbox: Gulfcrown Grease #2, or Mobilux Grease #2, applied directly to the end gears once a month.
Transverse feed, compound, tailstock, leadscrew, etc. Things that slide. Mobil DTE Light, or Shell Tona Oil 33 as appropriate.
Feedscrew, leadscrew, sliding surfaces, etc. (Listed separately than above. Dunno why) Shell Tona 33, or DTE light as appropriate, applied to surface.
Common metric/inch gearbox: Keep oil above the sight glass. Moble DTE Light, or Shell Tellus 32.

The manual is....well, it's a manual. Written by someone whose English is vastly better than my Chinese, so I won't complain too much, but it does cause you to stop and think every so often to try to figure out what they really meant. The illustrations are a little on the puzzling side, sometimes, or just plain hard to read, in the copy-of-a-copy version that I've got. (Original to the machine, and bound, so it's not like it's a shop copy. This is what it *came* with.)

The Cadillacs are still being imported, by Webb Machinery in LA. ( Webb Machinery Precision Machine Tools ) You can probably get a new manual straight from them.

They're good, solid machines. Beefy as hell for their size. I wish the gearbox had a little more range, and a less fussy control, but that's piddly stuff. For what you paid, unless there's something seriously wrong with it, you got a very good deal.

Regards,
Brian

I don't know what cream he used, but I would worry about about keeping bare iron covered in oil. As for simple green. Never found a use for that stuff in the shop. Too weak. I suggest "Super Clean". The purple stuff that will take your breath away. Don't let it get into any joints, cracks, crevises or sliding parts. On the big areas, use a squirt bottle, just don't let it leach into aforementioned areas. I use rubber gloves.

The tube of cream you mention might have been "Flitz" metal polish....Google it. It might still be available. PB

Dont be too quick to peddle off the tool holder. It looks to be a KDK. I have one on a south bend. Great tool holder. If you do decide to sell, it offer it here for us to at least dream about. If you can't find extra holders for it let me know or just put a post here, asking someone to make them for you, expensive but great quality.

Tim

One fellow above said YAM and Whacheon to be the same manufacturer. To my knowledge the are not; the YAM is Taiwanese while Whacheon/Hwacheon is S. Korean. Easy to confuse, as both were brought in by Webb at one time and both are Mori copies (I think; I'm not sure there was a 14" Mori that yours would be an exact clone of; the Whacheon's are a 17" machine and are parts-interchangeable Mori clones).

I had to source "feet" for my Whacheon so be glad yours has those 3" risers... unless you are short.

If your YAM is in the same league as a Whacheon, you got a hell of a machine there. Since nobody has made this point, that's a fairly serious smaller lathe (3 HP? 5?) and as such, is fairly seriously dangerous! If you are not well-versed in lathe safety, read up. This isn't some 1/2 horse hobby machine; this machine could literally kill you, and it would hurt the whole time it was doing so. Be careful!!



Oh, and congrats on the score! I'd nab that machine with that tooling at $1750. I "need" a better smallish lathe than my Logan...

That red rag hanging on the back of the headstock worries me.

Have nothing near that can catch or fall into the machine when it is running.

Otherwise a great find.

lionelt said:

That red rag hanging on the back of the headstock worries me.

Have nothing near that can catch or fall into the machine when it is running.

Otherwise a great find.

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Funny, but for the it's the red thing (lifting hook) bolted to the base of the machine that worries me. Those 9and all other "shipping" hooks and clamps are supposed to be removed after placing the machine in it's feet. That appears to have been on there all its life and probably has created a long list of banged up knees.

jorsborn said:

Bummer on the tool holder. I wonder if it might be a good idea to flip the tool holder and buy something new that I can purchase accessories for without having to depend on second hand availability.

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I would just keep it for now. I'm sure you can still get holders for it. I also think it is a KDK #100. I read that the company when out of business last year. However, there are a lot of them out there, so wouldn't worry about getting holders.

PixMan said:

Funny, but for the it's the red thing (lifting hook) bolted to the base of the machine that worries me. Those 9and all other "shipping" hooks and clamps are supposed to be removed after placing the machine in it's feet. That appears to have been on there all its life and probably has created a long list of banged up knees.

Click to expand...

Most all of them have the hooks unless the owner takes them off.

I've seen people put rags on the handles to quiet the bouncing. Most of the time it's fixable by putting a tight shim in the pin hinge arm or/and re positioning the floating bearing.

Long Tom said:

I had to source "feet" for my Whacheon so be glad yours has those 3" risers... unless you are short.

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Indeed I am shorter than average at 5' 6". I guess time will tell but the handles all feel about the right height.

scadvice said:

Most all of them have the hooks unless the owner takes them off.

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I've got one of the 19x40 Cadillacs. I've got the lifting hooks, but the front one is duct-taped to a little ledge on the back of the headstock casting. It lives back there unless I need it. They're damned handy to have when you do move it though. Do *NOT* discard them.

Didn't know that the Cadilacs and the Wacheons were different manufacturers. They're pretty much identical, even when you're standing in front of one.

I'd second the recommendation for the KDK. Plenty of used toolholders still floating around, and much more rigid than some silly little phase 2 piston post.

FWIW,
Brian

PS--> For cleaning, I'd go with Zep 505 spray. It's a spray bottle (like windex) but will cut grease like butter. Works great on getting dried grease and oil off machines. The local industrial supply places have had it, and I even think I found my most recent bottle at the local hardware store.

PPS--> On mine, I've got a little sheet of plexiglass that's cut to fit the little shelf on the front of the headstock with the RPM and threading chart. Helps protect the chart, since that little shelf always seems to attract spare tool holders and other small crap.