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New member, advice needed: Gorton Tracemaster

AJ_MI

Plastic
Joined
Apr 14, 2021
Hi, new member longtime lurker.

I have a Gorton Tracemaster I picked up a few years ago, and am now getting around to setting it up. It has the big clunky hydraulic tracing system, that I think I’d like to remove. I like the idea of retaining a power feed, but not the rest of it. What advice would you have regarding the tracing system? Remove it all, keep part of it (which parts?), etc? Does it have any value as a complete system?

As far as how I will be using the mill, basically to tinker and make one-off parts. I’m not terribly interested in dumping it for a Bridgeport or other suitably simpler machine for my use.

Thanks for your suggestions!
 

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I had one and in 20 years it only ran one job, but it did it several times a year. A commercial bakery turned out 100k sugar cookies a day, a lot of them sessional.. Christmas trees, stars, animals and so forth....

A couple times a year they'd need the rollers that ironed out the shapes sharpened up. Rollers got a hair cut in the lathe and then up into the mill to re-depth the pockets in the shape of Christmas trees, stars, animals and so forth. I retained the masters.

Long story short, it was useful if you had a job to run, providing someone doesn't have a Dxf file for the same job.
PS, invest in ear muffs
 
Thanks. Would you suggest to remove all the hydraulics, including the motors at the bed? Or would it make any sense to keep the motor & joystick for powered bed movement? Thanks.
 
Thanks. Would you suggest to remove all the hydraulics, including the motors at the bed? Or would it make any sense to keep the motor & joystick for powered bed movement? Thanks.

I had one, and never used the hydro. They have ballscrews, and not much for clamps, so they suck as a manual machine.

Was going to CNC it, but got busy, and that never happened.

Sold it cheap to a buddy, and he hooked up the hydro and uses it for power feed all the time.

You dont need a pattern to grab the stylus and steer.

I bought a bridgeport to do the stuff you want to do. Looking back I should have just got the BP sooner, becuase the Gorton tracer setup is never going to give you parts to the accuracy most of todays parts demand.

That's not a knock on gorton in general, I think the iron is fine. But if you convert it to manual, you have to account somehow for backdriving the ballscrews, which really have no place on a manual mill. And if you leave it tracer, I have no idea how you would dial in a tight pocket or bore.
 
Thanks. Would you suggest to remove all the hydraulics, including the motors at the bed? Or would it make any sense to keep the motor & joystick for powered bed movement? Thanks.
I would personall suggest you leave the thing alone, so it can do what it was designed to do, and get a mill that was intended to be manual in the first place. This is like taking a diving pool and filling it with concrete so the toddlers can play in it. The Tracemaster is really good for some things. All you're going to so is ruin it.

HillsideFab said:
the Gorton tracer setup is never going to give you parts to the accuracy most of todays parts demand.
They are good to a thou or two. That's plenty for a lot of stuff. For instance, with a 3d one I am sure you could make a decent side income reproducing blown-up old castings. Lots of simple stuff will be fine -- good if you don't want to get into unreliable electronics and incredibly overpriced spare parts, e.g. early model Haas vmc's.

Not the machine for everyone, but they have their place.
 
I would personall suggest you leave the fucking thing alone, so it can do what it was designed to do, and get a mill that was intended to be manual in the first place. This is like taking a diving pool and filling it with concrete so the toddlers can play in it. The Tracemaster is really good for some things. All you're going to so is ruin it.

LOL, thats a lot more succinct way to put it.
 
They are good to a thou or two. That's plenty for a lot of stuff. For instance, with a 3d one I am sure you could make a decent side income reproducing blown-up old castings. Lots of simple stuff will be fine -- good if you don't want to get into unreliable electronics and incredibly overpriced spare parts, e.g. early model Haas vmc's.

Not the machine for everyone, but they have their place.

Gotta have a pattern, I'm not sure how you would drive one accurately without a template.

I've been involved in quite a bit of repair work over the last decade, from beer money jobs in the shed out back, to some multimillion dollar plant overhauls, and remachining a casting from scratch on a tracer has never come up.

I would have my doubts that you could hold 1 or 2 thou on a 60yr old tracer, even with a pattern, but I'm certainly no expert on trying to make that work.
 
Thanks very much for the inputs. I didn’t realize it was ballscrew - yeah that would be problematic for my purposes. Looks like time it might be time to drop it... wasn’t where I was headed when I posted this, but exactly why I posted in the first place. Thanks again.
 
Gotta have a pattern, I'm not sure how you would drive one accurately without a template.
We made templates out of plate with bluing, a scribe, the bandsaw, and a belt sander. Maybe press the Bridgeport into service. That was 2d tho.

Had a tracer lathe, too. Mmm, I love the smell of Trimsol on a hot day. Might have emphysema but by god, there's no rust on these lungs :)

I've been involved in quite a bit of repair work over the last decade, from beer money jobs in the shed out back, to some multimillion dollar plant overhauls, and remachining a casting from scratch on a tracer has never come up.
I was thinking of a 3d Gorton and crappy old broken stuff from antique cars and motorcycles. It'd actually be faster than trying to create a CAD model, and no shrinkage problems like making patterns, glue the borken parts together, add a little Bondo, sand it smooth and away ya go. A little bit of artificial casting-sand effect from a needle scaler maybe then here's your invoice, sir.

Probably wouldn't pay the rent in a bigtime shop with Hermles to pay for, but a guy in the garage in a low-rent district, should make some money and be interesting and fun, too.
 
Thanks very much for the inputs. I didn’t realize it was ballscrew - yeah that would be problematic for my purposes. Looks like time it might be time to drop it... wasn’t where I was headed when I posted this, but exactly why I posted in the first place. Thanks again.

Whether you - or the next owner..

There are plenty of needs for "close is good enough" complex-curved 3-D items that tracer-mill work might simply do the prepping of a complex shape for hand fitting and finish.

Custom grips and handles, for example.

Not necessarily canes, walking sticks, firearms, speed shifters, or knives, be they Sushi-chef or dream-about-it-combat with aliens and Zombies, but those, too.

Custom fitted boxes and cases for uber-fine goods is another complex curve one where close is good enough at doing the scut work. Or maybe ALL of it?

Big World. Large population. You don't need an item EVERYBODY will buy.

The Big Box buyers will just have the mass-market s**t cast or molded out of Chinesium and undersell your ass every single time. They may not net much, per-each. They MUST make it up in volume. Custom maker is the reverse.

"Hit em where they ain't"

Wee Wille Keeler .. copied by General Douglas MacArthur
 
We made templates out of plate with bluing, a scribe, the bandsaw, and a belt sander. Maybe press the Bridgeport into service. That was 2d tho.

Had a tracer lathe, too. Mmm, I love the smell of Trimsol on a hot day. Might have emphysema but by god, there's no rust on these lungs :)


I was thinking of a 3d Gorton and crappy old broken stuff from antique cars and motorcycles. It'd actually be faster than trying to create a CAD model, and no shrinkage problems like making patterns, glue the borken parts together, add a little Bondo, sand it smooth and away ya go. A little bit of artificial casting-sand effect from a needle scaler maybe then here's your invoice, sir.

Probably wouldn't pay the rent in a bigtime shop with Hermles to pay for, but a guy in the garage in a low-rent district, should make some money and be interesting and fun, too.

Ha, yeah I have had crap in my lungs all winter, ready to get the big doors open again.

My Gorton was a 3d version. But I'm pretty fast in solidworks, so the models arent too time consuming to generate. My problem was all the customers that would want to repair some crappy old part would show up with a 12 pack that didnt even cover tooling cost. Imagine all the old junk your mom, or grandma, or mother in law has tucked away on the healing shelf that needs fixed.

I'm pretty low rent, but I'd love to add a Hermle someday. Still chugging away on an old Yasnac Tree 1260 (for sale) for most of my odd ball 3d work at the moment.
 
My Gorton was a 3d version.
If you say it was a 2-30 I'm gonna turn green from envy.

But I'm pretty fast in solidworks, so the models arent too time consuming to generate.
Not the same, though. Even if it was as fast, the shape wouldn't be handmade. You can tell. Computer-generated parts stick out like a sore thumb on human-generated assemblies. And then you have all the hassle and expense of keeping an old clunker alive, or the cost and resulting high prices of buying new.

If'n I wuz to go into this again (which I'm not) I'd prefer the tracer over nc.

My problem was all the customers that would want to repair some crappy old part would show up with a 12 pack that didnt even cover tooling cost.
Gotta upgrade your custoemr base :)

I'm pretty low rent, but I'd love to add a Hermle someday. Still chugging away on an old Yasnac Tree 1260 ...
I could getcha into a nice double-column linear motor machine for a goodfriend price :) They are pretty trick, I was impressed.
 
Looking at your machine pictures that looks like a Tru- Trace tracing system. Some Bridgeport’s came with that same system. It looks like a 2 axis system. You should locate a operators manual from True- Trace or Bridgeport . All of the machines I have had experience operating all had hydraulic cylinders on each axis. Your machine is a profiler and not a die sinker. I always wondered how Bridgeport’s would work with that set up. Hydraulic motors powering lead screws might might be a very durable power feed.
Most small aerospace shops used tracers back in the day. You have to recognize it for the level of automation that it is. You could still put that thing to work if you had the right work. I have seen tracers used for wood work to maintenance and repair jobs. We used to remachine machine cams that were non circular curves and have the job in and out the door in a day. You can get that table to lock by having the hydraulics on and the stylus fixed on a template. A tapered stylus placed in a template hole would work. This will seem more clear if you had a manual. Good luck.
 
Looking at your machine pictures that looks like a Tru- Trace tracing system. Some Bridgeport’s came with that same system. It looks like a 2 axis system. You should locate a operators manual from True- Trace or Bridgeport . All of the machines I have had experience operating all had hydraulic cylinders on each axis. Your machine is a profiler and not a die sinker. I always wondered how Bridgeport’s would work with that set up. Hydraulic motors powering lead screws might might be a very durable power feed.
Most small aerospace shops used tracers back in the day. You have to recognize it for the level of automation that it is. You could still put that thing to work if you had the right work. I have seen tracers used for wood work to maintenance and repair jobs. We used to remachine machine cams that were non circular curves and have the job in and out the door in a day. You can get that table to lock by having the hydraulics on and the stylus fixed on a template. A tapered stylus placed in a template hole would work. This will seem more clear if you had a manual. Good luck.

Yeah, I think you have it right. Hyd motors on each axis. Hard to see from the pics, sorry about that.

I dont have the room to keep two machines and transfer hydraulics over to a BP.

If anyone has suggestions on where to sell it outside CL and fb, or any interest here, lemme know. Thanks again for all the advice & help.
 








 
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