New (used) machine day

eKretz · Oct 8, 2019

Picked up a couple decent machines for myself finally. Wells-Index 847 and a little 1440 lathe. Got lots of tooling with them, including some Cushman chucks, a QC toolpost and a Bison Super Indexer, Harig Grind-All and a few other nice pieces. Mill head overarm doesn't want to move in or out, going to have to get it apart and clean it. Anyone recognize that spindle? Is that the 30MMT?

atex57 · Oct 8, 2019

We need a closer look at the spindle, it looks like some kind of quick change.

Ed.

eKretz · Oct 8, 2019

Yep, it's sitting in a friend's shop where it will be installed, not at my house, so I'll get some better pictures and get it apart soon. After loading, transporting and unloading the machines I didn't feel much like playing with them. Got some back issues.

As far as the lathe goes, near as I can tell it's either a copy of or made by Colchester, looking at images.

AlfaGTA · Oct 9, 2019

Not a Colchester....Thinking "Chicom" knock off.....

Spindle looks to be "Erickson" quick change..likely #30 but can't tell from the photo.
Cheers Ross

eKretz · Oct 9, 2019

The chicom knock off may actually be a plus in this case. Spindle mount is larger than what I've seen spec'd for the Colchester (D1-6 on this machine, D1-4 on the Master 2500). Spindle bore is correspondingly larger also (52mm vs 40mm). The lathe seems about the same in quality as the Sharp machine I mentioned in another post. Plenty good for tinkering.

As regards the mill spindle, it does seem to be a 30 taper. Not sure which. There is mention of the 30 MMT as an option on the Wells site but I'm not familiar with the various 30 tapers. The one that was in the spindle looks similar to the #50 NMTB tapers I'm more used to (except in size of course):

AlfaGTA · Oct 10, 2019

Sure looks to be an "Erickson" quick change setup...Nice to have if you have the tooling...Fast and accurate...more rigid than the normal "R-8"
Erickson setup will take standard #30 tools except for the thickness and location of the flange.(gauge length is critical)...must be in the correct position in order for the locking nut to close and hold the tool.
Can modify some standard 30 tool holders to work (have done this ) by machining the flange, usually need to shorten the outside face
If you have some original Erickson tooling then you have a model....gauge length of the flange determines if the holder will work.
Cheers Ross

gregormarwick · Oct 11, 2019

eKretz said:
The chicom knock off may actually be a plus in this case. Spindle mount is larger than what I've seen spec'd for the Colchester (D1-6 on this machine, D1-4 on the Master 2500). Spindle bore is correspondingly larger also (52mm vs 40mm).

D1-6 and 52mm is typical of a Triumph 2000, so maybe not a clone.

SAG 180 · Oct 11, 2019

Some of the Colchester clones cut costs by leaving out the forward-reversing clutch assembly and simply reversed the motor. This meant that trying to perform an instant reverse of the spindle like a Colchester easily does will cause a localized power brown out in your street as the motor tries to instantly reverse.

eKretz · Oct 11, 2019

Good stuff, will check that out. Haven't gotten any further so far than discovering that the motor appears by size to be at least 5 horse, can't see the data plate or it's missing. Machine needs some TLC for sure, but everything looks basically in pretty good shape. Luckily just happened to find the roller rest across the shop while wandering around the place where I bought the machine. (Probably 15 or 20,000 square feet to explore).

quasi · Oct 14, 2019

Colchesters have been made in Asia for decades.

LKeithR · Oct 14, 2019

A bit of info here...

Machine Tool Shanks (Tapers)

eKretz · May 28, 2020

So I've just noticed that my Wells seems to have a little different table than most. All the others I see are 3 T-slots, mine has 4 and the table measures about 12" x 46". Anyone else got a 4 T-slot version?

Turns out that the spindle is the MMT30 taper, which is apparently exactly the same as Erickson QC30 but for some reason Wells designates it MMT30. I have a batch of toolholders, most fit the QC30 and lock up fine, a couple will need some modification. Got a power drawbar ready to go too. Also got the overarm moving. Somebody apparently didn't loosen the clamps and sheared the drive pin in the hex used to push and pull the head in and out. Wasn't stuck at all.

Fired up the spindle for the first time last week via VFD with a temporary cord just to make sure everything was in working order, sounds smooth and quiet. Power feed works. Now got to get the wiring done in permanent fashion, got a job waiting.

Bill D · May 28, 2020

I understand that Wells Index will regrind a spindle to a different taper for around $200. I think this is mainly from a B+S to a r8. Good idea to ask before investing in tooling for an oddball taper.
Bill D

eKretz · May 28, 2020

Yes they do offer regrinds for certain tapers (as you noted, BS#9 to R-8 may be the only one), but there's nothing wrong with this taper. QC30 is basically interchangeable with NMTB30, so pretty widely available still. In addition, as I understand it, any standard 30 taper adapter (BT, ISO, CAT) can be used with a pullstud to drawbar adapter as well. I'd rather have this than R-8 for sure - I like the Z height repeatability. The only upgrade I might be interested in would be to 40 taper, but that requires a whole new spindle - and in a 3 HP machine isn't remotely necessary IMO.

ratbldr427 · May 28, 2020

I have pretty much the same mill with the Erickson QC 30 spindle.Mine is an 887.It came with Servo feeds on all axis.
The heads are really quiet.We have a 747 at work and it either sheered the roll pin or broke the chain many years ago so the ram wouldn't move,don't remember.Has been in steady use for the 26 years I've been here.

Mine didn't have the QC nut when I got it but a few months later I lucked out and found 2 new ones for $60.

eKretz · May 28, 2020

Got it wired up tonight. Got to set up the remote keypad for the VFD still but it's ready to roll. Took a couple test cuts, everything seems fine.

dian · May 29, 2020

what is the lathe with all those levers on the left?

eKretz · May 29, 2020

It's the same one pictured above, a Hartford 1440. Taiwanese Colchester copy as far as I can tell. The levers are just the apron controls. I removed the carriage for a repair and cleaning.

New (used) machine day

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