Non-conforming Parts Escape

QC Dude · Oct 18, 2012

Good Morning All,

Our shop had an issue in which an operator used 304 SS instead of hastelloy to finish up a run. Unbeknownst to QC, Inv. Control, and Mgmt., the parts made it to the customer. The non-conformance was found and we intend to send them out for a non-destructive test and sort. In the meantime, we are trying to distinguish the two types material in house. Knowing these materials are pretty similar except for conductivity, it's pretty difficult. A magnet does not seem very reliable and there isn't any visible way to tell them apart.

Does anyone have any ideas how we can pre-screen these parts? We're not set up for any corrosive type tests unless anyone knows of a way to easily do one.

Much appreciated.

-Rich

Finegrain · Oct 18, 2012

Can't you shoot them with one of those ray guns that gives you the composition?

Regards.

Mike

jwatts · Oct 18, 2012

Nickel is more dense than iron so if you have nice regularly shaped parts and a good scale, measuring the geometric density may show enough difference to identify them. Whether they are regularly shaped or not, using Archimedes' density technique would get you a very accurate number which should differentiate the two. With that said, if you can get access to an XRF analysis gun it will be much quicker.

Finegrain · Oct 18, 2012

jwatts said:
Nickel is more dense than iron so if you have nice regularly shaped parts and a good scale, measuring the geometric density may show enough difference to identify them.

Ah, yes, weight difference. Don't even need to measure the weight, just use a sensitive 2-pan balance and compare piece-to-piece.

Regards.

Mike

QC Dude · Oct 18, 2012

Thanks guys...I guess we need to invest in both a sensitive scale (These particular parts are very small) and the analysis gun. One of our customers makes the guns, maybe they'll loan us one for now. (Of course we'll tell them that we need it to separate our scrap).

For now, we'll just send them out with samples of the true materials and let them sort it out.

Much appreciated!

DDoug · Oct 18, 2012

QC Dude said:
Thanks guys...I guess we need to invest in both a sensitive scale and the analysis gun. One of our customers makes the guns, maybe they'll loan us one for now. (Of course we'll tell them that we need it to separate our scrap).

For now, we'll just send them out with samples of the true materials and let them sort it out.

Much appreciated!

Wait one minute here...

If I read this right, you sent bad parts, maybe in a critical application.

Now your customer found out, and your gonna just send out a couple of good
ones, and tell them to weight them ?

I should think you'd have a crew over there, testing each and every one of them,
and be appologizing profusely to the customer.

Zonko · Oct 18, 2012

Please look at his first post:

They are sending them out for nondestructive testing. The advice he is asking for is related to preventing this from happening again.

Mystery metal..gotta be mans best friend....NOT

QC Dude · Oct 18, 2012

digger doug said:
Wait one minute here...

If I read this right, you sent bad parts, maybe in a critical application.

Now your customer found out, and your gonna just send out a couple of good
ones, and tell them to weight them ?

I should think you'd have a crew over there, testing each and every one of them,
and be appologizing profusely to the customer.

No...we have some parts leftover in stock, and the customer is sending what they have back to us. We will then send them to someone who can test them since we cannot.

We understand this is a major issue and hope to assure them, with a written corrective action and executable plan, that it will not happen again. This is embarassing and can be very detrimental to us. Hopefully our track record and corrective actions will suffice to keep their business.

DDoug · Oct 18, 2012

Zonko said:
Please look at his first post:

They are sending them out for nondestructive testing. The advice he is asking for is related to preventing this from happening again.

Mystery metal..gotta be mans best friend....NOT

I most certainly did read every word.

But I also read the last post (#5), which I quoted.

Seemed to be a change there.

EDIT:

Seems QcDude was posting at the same time.

Your last post cleared things up.

John Garner · Oct 18, 2012

I'd be sending ALL of the parts -- both the customer returns and the "leftovers" -- out for definitive COMMERCIAL-LAB testing.

And I'll mention in passing that lying to another customer -- about why you want to borrow one of their products -- strikes me as a supremely bad idea.

John

QC Dude · Oct 18, 2012

John Garner said:
I'd be sending ALL of the parts -- both the customer returns and the "leftovers" -- out for definitive COMMERCIAL-LAB testing.

And I'll mention in passing that lying to another customer -- about why you want to borrow one of their products -- strikes me as a supremely bad idea.

John

Yep all of the parts are going for testing.

Maybe we'll just ask to borrow the analysis gun because we're interested in buying one.

We just don't want them to know we screwed up so they don't fear it will happen to them.

Royldean · Oct 18, 2012

QC Dude said:
Maybe we'll just ask to borrow the analysis gun because we're interested in buying one.

The "separating scrap" statement isn't exactly untrue, either... I mean, you do plan on scrapping the parts that were made with the wrong material, right?

kb0thn · Oct 18, 2012

Royldean said:
The "separating scrap" statement isn't exactly untrue, either... I mean, you do plan on scrapping the parts that were made with the wrong material, right?

That's how I took it!

moonlight machine · Oct 18, 2012

How do you keep track of your material and certs? Look at this as a wake up call and get your act together.

bjorn toulouse · Oct 18, 2012

I gotta agree with moonlight, you need to keep better track of your material.

Rex

QC Dude · Oct 19, 2012

moonlight machine said:
How do you keep track of your material and certs? Look at this as a wake up call and get your act together.

We have a good record keeping system for the certs. Although, I believe our material rack could be marked, coded, or labelled better. I believe the problem is rooted in communication between shifts. The material handler gave the correct material to the 1st shift operator whom placed one of the bars atop the machine. The 2nd shift guy ran out of material, wasn't aware of the material atop the machine, grabbed a bar off the rack which what he thought was the stuff. (Another problem.)

I'm working on foolproof system, we're thinking of getting a bar coder to mark the material, and reiterated to all that communication is very important. Any other suggestions?

Much appreciated all.

JST · Oct 19, 2012

There are two basic ways to keep material....

1) label each and every piece.... works well so long as every piece is labeled correctly, and the labeled end is not cut off the bulk stock first... and people check the label, and it always gets done, etc, etc. A pretty good system if done right, stuff in the wrong bin is discovered if anyone pays attention.

2) "coding by position".... label the rack or bin, and only put the right stuff there..... This is much more problematic, since anything can be put back wrong, label falls off and is put back wrong, etc, and if materials look the same, may go un-noticed for too long.

77ironhead · Oct 19, 2012

JST said:
There are two basic ways to keep material....

1) label each and every piece.... works well so long as every piece is labeled correctly, and the labeled end is not cut off the bulk stock first... and people check the label, and it always gets done, etc, etc. A pretty good system if done right, stuff in the wrong bin is discovered if anyone pays attention.

2) "coding by position".... label the rack or bin, and only put the right stuff there..... This is much more problematic, since anything can be put back wrong, label falls off and is put back wrong, etc, and if materials look the same, may go un-noticed for too long.

we do both where I currently work- every single piece of material is marked with an in-house code with a paint pen, and every piece of material has a corresponding labelled spot in the stock racks. The only people allowed to pull material are the sawyers, the group leaders, shift supervisors, and the (very) few guys in my department who have to cut their own material (we're speeeeecial! :dunce:

).....woe to anyone caught by management pulling material without authorization!

Rawleigh · Oct 19, 2012

Tell your xray gun customer you have some unsorted stock and ask if you can rent one. A system as simple as multiple cans of different colored spray paint to mark the material as it arrives can help prevent this, even if you have a different racking system. Redundancy never hurts.

Tonytn36 · Oct 19, 2012

Inkjet Marking system (Mathews or Video Jet), couple sets of v-rollers, a motor to drive one or both rollers and a couple idle rollers for support.
Mark the entire bar end to end as they arrive with certs.

Matthews Marking, Laser Coding, Inkjet Printers & Systems

Videojet Technologies | Industrial Coding & Marking Equipment | Videojet

Non-conforming Parts Escape

Plastic

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Plastic

Diamond

Stainless

Plastic

Diamond

Titanium

Plastic

Stainless

Stainless

Diamond

Titanium

Plastic

Diamond

Titanium

Aluminum

Diamond

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