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  1. #61
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    Perhaps not a tip, but a request for thought:

    Would an electrostatic air cleaner system be useful for microbe/virus control? A combination of the static particle attraction and controlled release of ozone might be helpful, even if there's some collateral damage due to undesired free radical interactions.

    A quick search on the matter mostly pulled up HEPA filter use, which does seem to have some efficacy (but far from complete), and as this virus seems rather small it might be worse than other tests show. A more related test is here: Evaluation of an electronic air filter for filtrating bacteria and viruses from indoor air. - PubMed - NCBI but is only an outline without results (that I saw).

    So, what say the PM eggheads?

    If the process does work on airborne viruses, then a short term (months) usage might be worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    . . .

    Pete - check this out

    30 Sample Gaokao Questions

    I'm lucky I grew up in the US, in China I'd have ended up at street-sweeper school
    EG - have to say the 17 essay questions, graded by a government functionary, freaked me out. Can't imagine where i'd be if my admittance to a US college had been based on someone deciding if my anwers to essay questions on being a good citizen, etc. were correct enough to move on.

    Bravo for the math and other questions.

    Had you grown up in China, knowing you had to study extra hard on the trig and the expected spin on essay questions, my guess is you'd probably have ended up a crack machinist . . . or maybe minister of PR?

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    does anybody know how big the virus is?

    (they say its small, but whats the size?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    does anybody know how big the virus is?

    (they say its small, but whats the size?)
    This study says about 70-90nm, which is pretty darn tiny (I have to squint to see that small).

    Identification of Coronavirus Isolated from a Patient in Korea with COVID-19 [about half way down]

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    EG - have to say the 17 essay questions, graded by a government functionary, freaked me out.
    First, those 17 essay questions were examples pulled from several years of gaokaos by a magazine for an article. It's not as if every year people face a barrage of questions like that.

    Second, the tests are graded by all the teachers of the province they are taken in. That's one of the teachers' yearly duties. I guess you could say these are "government functionaries" but then, so would be all the people you invite to give lectures

    Third, and I guess this is our difference between being from California or New Jersey .. I thought the questions were interesting and provocative. They made me think, and I am older than a high school student. For example :

    Quote Originally Posted by gaokao 1
    Write a composition on “donation”.

    A person became a billionaire from scratch. He was generous and has devoted himself to charity. He then knew that there were three poor families that lived very hard lives. He felt sympathy for the families and decided to donate for them. One family was very grateful and accepted his donation. Another family hesitated but accepted at last and declared that they would pay him back. The last family thanked him for his generosity but declined it as they thought it was an alm.
    Can we relate to this or not ? As a high school student, what would your essay have read like ? Probably pretty smug, like mine would have been (where's the 'ashamed' emoticon ?)

    Quote Originally Posted by gaojao 2
    Please write an essay on the following:

    Who do you think is the most glamorous person? A biotechnologist who led his company in international research, an ordinary welder who gained international fame through his work, or a photographer complimented widely for a series of photos?
    When was the last time in the US that you saw any kind of credit assigned to a welder ? Even a world-famous one ? Or even the concept that a welder could become world-famous ? In the company of a biotechnologist ? you gotta be kidding !

    Quote Originally Posted by gaojao 3
    You are free because you may choose how to cross the desert; you are not free because you must cross the desert either way. Write an 800-word essay on this.
    Can you do that even now, without praising the faux news "free press" ?

    How about this one -

    Quote Originally Posted by gaokao 4
    After getting on a bus, a little boy asked the bus driver to wait for his mother. A minute passed and the mother didn’t show up. Passengers complained loudly and the boy was brought to tears. When the mother finally caught up with the bus, everybody went silent -- she is disabled. Write an essay in 800 words or more based on the given information.
    If that question doomed Martin Shkreli to a job cleaning cement trucks, would that be a bad thing ?

    Why do you think there should not be essay questions on social responsibility in a university entrance exam ? Could this lead to fewer stories about the football team gang-raping a drunk girl ? Or famous figures arrested for wife-beating, armed robbery, and murder ? CEOs in prison for fraud, insider trading, destroying companies for their own personal gain ? (Like that ever happens, boy am I a dreamer.)

    The gaokao is somewhat in the tradition of the imperial examinations ... should sociopaths be given high positions in society ? Should access to higher levels of society carry more social responsibility or not ?

    Curious what you think.

    Can't imagine where i'd be if my admittance to a US college had been based on someone deciding if my anwers to essay questions on being a good citizen, etc. were correct enough to move on.
    Let's hope you are not a sociopath

    Had you grown up in China, knowing you had to study extra hard on the trig
    Trig is the only part of mathematics I liked, so maybe it worked out that way anyhow

    the expected spin on essay questions,
    "the expected spin" .... can you drop your preconceived McCarthyite notions for one moment ? It's teachers who grade these tests.

    Admittedly, teachers are not often firebrands of revolution, but much more so than business leaders. I thought you admired academics ?

    my guess is you'd probably have ended up a crack machinist ...
    Instead of the doofus I am ... good point !

    I could always be a dog groomer ... that actually pays pretty good these days and you can't get covid-19 from a dog

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    This study says about 70-90nm, which is pretty darn tiny (I have to squint to see that small).

    Identification of Coronavirus Isolated from a Patient in Korea with COVID-19 [about half way down]
    thanks. so a n95 mask does absolutely nothing, right? it as effective as a piece of cloth that prevents somebody to spit around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Perhaps not a tip, but a request for thought:

    Would an electrostatic air cleaner system be useful for microbe/virus control? A combination of the static particle attraction and controlled release of ozone might be helpful, even if there's some collateral damage due to undesired free radical interactions.

    A quick search on the matter mostly pulled up HEPA filter use, which does seem to have some efficacy (but far from complete), and as this virus seems rather small it might be worse than other tests show. A more related test is here: Evaluation of an electronic air filter for filtrating bacteria and viruses from indoor air. - PubMed - NCBI but is only an outline without results (that I saw).

    So, what say the PM eggheads?

    If the process does work on airborne viruses, then a short term (months) usage might be worth it.

    I believe you'd be better off looking at something like these: Synexis: Continuous Occupied Microbial Reduction – Synexis Biodefense Systems provide sustainable, wide-area reduction of microbial levels in occupied spaces

    That's what our company installed, anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    I believe you'd be better off looking at something like these: Synexis: Continuous Occupied Microbial Reduction – Synexis Biodefense Systems provide sustainable, wide-area reduction of microbial levels in occupied spaces

    That's what our company installed, anyway.
    If something like that were installed in jetliners global pandemics would probably be greatly reduced.

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    I'm waiting to see somebody at the food store walking around with a full face mask and air tank. Or maybe a full mask with cartridge filters.

    When I walk in cross walks the drivers stop 10-20 feet before the intersection. I would just close the fresh air vents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    I'm waiting to see somebody at the food store walking around with a full face mask and air tank. Or maybe a full mask with cartridge filters.

    When I walk in cross walks the drivers stop 10-20 feet before the intersection. I would just close the fresh air vents.
    Yeah, there's social distancing and then there's just plain over-reaction. If they are that scared they probably shouldn't be out at all but staying home existing on pre-coronavirus supplies, wiping their ass with their fingers if necessary.

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    Last time I went food shopping I did wear disposable gloves, but no mask. I got a stare or two, not going to worry about that.

    I've gone a step better, I've got a ~22yo who's been helping me off and on for a while, and have arranged with him to do my shopping. Keeps an old fart out of the stores, and since he has to go anyway, doesn't appreciably increase his exposure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    First, those 17 essay questions were examples pulled from several years of gaokaos by a magazine for an article. It's not as if every year people face a barrage of questions like that.

    Second, the tests are graded by all the teachers of the province they are taken in. That's one of the teachers' yearly duties. I guess you could say these are "government functionaries" but then, so would be all the people you invite to give lectures

    Third, and I guess this is our difference between being from California or New Jersey .. I thought the questions were interesting and provocative. They made me think, and I am older than a high school student. For example :



    Can we relate to this or not ? As a high school student, what would your essay have read like ? Probably pretty smug, like mine would have been (where's the 'ashamed' emoticon ?)


    When was the last time in the US that you saw any kind of credit assigned to a welder ? Even a world-famous one ? Or even the concept that a welder could become world-famous ? In the company of a biotechnologist ? you gotta be kidding !


    Can you do that even now, without praising the faux news "free press" ?

    How about this one -


    If that question doomed Martin Shkreli to a job cleaning cement trucks, would that be a bad thing ?

    Why do you think there should not be essay questions on social responsibility in a university entrance exam ? Could this lead to fewer stories about the football team gang-raping a drunk girl ? Or famous figures arrested for wife-beating, armed robbery, and murder ? CEOs in prison for fraud, insider trading, destroying companies for their own personal gain ? (Like that ever happens, boy am I a dreamer.)

    The gaokao is somewhat in the tradition of the imperial examinations ... should sociopaths be given high positions in society ? Should access to higher levels of society carry more social responsibility or not ?

    Curious what you think.


    Let's hope you are not a sociopath


    Trig is the only part of mathematics I liked, so maybe it worked out that way anyhow


    "the expected spin" .... can you drop your preconceived McCarthyite notions for one moment ? It's teachers who grade these tests.

    Admittedly, teachers are not often firebrands of revolution, but much more so than business leaders. I thought you admired academics ?


    Instead of the doofus I am ... good point !

    I could always be a dog groomer ... that actually pays pretty good these days and you can't get covid-19 from a dog
    “ Instead of the doofus I am ... good point !

    “I could always be a dog groomer ... that actually pays pretty good these days and you can't get covid-19 from a dog ”

    First your dog would have to return home. Perhaps he /she is at the White House or in Canada hanging out with Miss World.

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    PeteM,

    Your instincts were correct about that supposed Johns Hopkins bulletin. There is nothing at the Johns Hopkins web site that resembles it, but it's being widely shared around the web with attribution to JH. It was obviously written by someone for whom English is a second language, so who knows where it came from. The advice may or may not be good, but if someone lies about the source then we must wonder what else have they misstated or made up. Not exactly the sort of advice I would bet my life on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrHook View Post
    I believe the purpose of the extended hand washing time is to get one to pay attention to what one is doing. namely, concentrate on each finger, thumb, back of the hand and wrist, and palm.(per my EMT training "back in the day"...)
    Case in point- "boy, put the dead mouse down, and wash your hands"... GF grandson, 9 yrs old, picks up soap bottle with left hand, squirts some on the right. Puts bottle down, reaches up with said left hand, and turns on the water. Rinses the soap off the right hand in the water flow, before reaching in with left hand and rubbing the palms only together for about 2 seconds (if that) before reaching up with the left hand to turn off the water and grab the kitchen towel to dry his hands... I go thru the roof, and nobody knows why. BTW- grandmaw is a nurse, and a very intelligent one, at that.
    It's a little of both. The soap actually destroys the virus, but it takes some contact time. You do need to rub to get to all the virus. Treat it as if you got some dirty grease on your hands, since it acts a lot like grease in terms of transfer from one surface to another.

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    Again:
    I think zinc, but in your mouth not swallowing.
    And boost your iodine level, best done with iodine rich food..Raw iodine on your skin next best
    and all the recommended precautions.
    This from my hack research as I am not a doctor.
    Buck

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    @Milland
    The COVID virus spreads primarily through droplets and by direct contact. Gravity clears the droplets from the air relatively quickly when they fall onto surfaces to be picked up by our hands there. So the droplets are naturally cleared from the air without a filter. There have been reports of airborne transmission, where the virus lingers in the air, but this has to be placed in the proper context and is not thought to be relevant to common transmission.
    This is a current discussion of that topic:
    Modes of transmission of virus causing COVID-19: implications for IPC precaution recommendations

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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    thanks. so a n95 mask does absolutely nothing, right? it as effective as a piece of cloth that prevents somebody to spit around.
    This is a current discussion of the effectiveness of the N95 mask by it's inventor:
    University of Tennessee Research Foundation
    It includes information on how to sterilize the mask for reuse without ruining its filtration properties.

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    Here's a recent study indicating some positive indicators coming from Melatonin, the popular over the counter natural sleep-aid, in assisting to ward off COVID-19.

    COVID-19: Melatonin as a potential adjuvant treatment - ScienceDirect

    AT the very least, it may help with the tossing and turning and sleeplessness associated with the effects of being quarantined and worried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Kahneman is one of my favorites, too. Years ago I did a summary of the near 200 known biases and heuristics we know - more of them (around 20) researched by Kahneman and Tversky than anyone else. A few years later Kahneman came out with his general public book and I had a chance to talk with him. In my own experience, when I'd give a talk about biases and heuristics, almost no one thought that was something they needed to work on - rather something they needed to get others to fix in themselves. Danny Kahneman was equally unsure of how we could get people/nations to a bit more "thinking slow" in those critical situations that needed it.
    Wow, you got a chance to talk to Kahneman? And you give lectures on biases and hueristics? Very cool.

    I'm really pretty depressed right now about the state of distrust of scientists and physicians and epidemiologists. I've railed against what I view as a distorted (I'd say "wicked" and "sinful") misinterpretation of religion that contributes to this. But there are others, in the press, in government, and even in science itself, that contribute to the problem.

    I do think that we're doing a large scale, whole population experiment in the dynamics of propagation of information (good, bad, true, false, rumors, sensationalistic, etc.) and that the results may be as scary as Covid. Quite sure that the Chinese and Russians are exploiting the crisis using what I'll call our "antisocial media" to exacerbate civil society in this country. Quite sure that they have expert psychologists who know what types of things to write, and where to write them, so that the associated ideas have maximum negative impact.

    So yeah, we need to have people respect the problem enough not to kneejerk and try an inapt "thinking fast" decision. But when you have truly evil people trying to inject and amplify false signals, and a president and an administration that has contempt and strong antipathy for a free and competent press...

    On the plus side, if the Chinese gubmint's strong actions have crippled their economy, and they destroy our economy via social-media-based sabotage, who the hell they gonna sell to to recover? Likewise Russia, whose economy is basically that of a run-down corner gas station. Who they gonna sell gas to? Small consolation, I know.

    As an engineer, and one who worked with a cadre of decision analytics experts (all from the Engineering Management school at Stanford as students of Ron Howard*) this is as dismaying as it is scary. Growing up, we always thought that the Russians or Chinese would attack us by hacking our computers. And they are doing that and continue to try. But very few people, I think, considered how much damage and evil a team of a few hundred knowledgeable and malign people could wreak using ... facebook.

    *My former CEO got his masters at Pitt, first, with William Simon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    But very few people, I think, considered how much damage and evil a team of a few hundred knowledgeable and malign people could wreak using ... facebook.
    With the aiding and abetting of... Facebook. Because they're making money hand over arseholes (F'in owners) due to the way their "pay for engagement" system works.

    We don't just sell our enemies the rope with which we hang ourselves. We happily put the noose over our heads, stand on the platform, and pull the lever ourselves!


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