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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    Growing up, we always thought that the Russians or Chinese would attack us by hacking our computers.
    Duck and cover ! Duck and cover !

    Why are you people so paranoid ? Sure, every country is looking out for itself but did you ever consider that if the US didn't bomb every country on the planet that didn't do your bidding, didn't overthrow any government that didn't want to make the Bush'es wealthy, maybe just minded your own damn business for a change, maybe you wouldn't have to be cowering under them desks ?

    Just maybe if you spent a little more on your own hospitals and infrastructure (California had several huge mobile hospitals and millions of masks, thousands of ventilators which they scrapped because it cost 5 million a year to keep them operational, they couldn't afford it), just maybe if you didn't piss away 800 billion a year on bullying the rest of the world, just maybe the US could be a better place, instead of trying to become a third-world shithole for its own people ?

    Might be worth considering, if yer gonna be all scientific and stuff.

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    Sort of agree with above...we really are world bullies, and it does cost a whole bunch to keep the gang in the latest and greatest to bully at their best. I basically understand why we need to keep the ass-hats at bay, but certainly understand when countries object to our meddling and invasions. Do keep in mind, I'm just a dumb Millwright (ret).

    Stuart

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    Prolly becos ,throughout history its easy to build up giant armies ,but downsizing them without losing your head is a different matter all together.......The armies either attack others ,or they attack those who seek to reduce their power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    ... downsizing them without losing your head is a different matter all together...
    I would not be surprised if the first week a new president is in office the joint chiefs hold a briefing where they show the zapruder film ....

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    With due diligence and precautions people should think the corona virus rates should go down,
    *Advil and the like can make the corona virus 10 x worse'
    the deaths are highest with people who were using this medicine.


    I can't give a link to the original but this is much the same information.
    Click on this:-> Access Denied

    the actual report said "almost all cases more sever and death resulting ..... )

    Anything with ibuprofen

    I take aspirin for most pain. I do have high power pain killers and even nitro pills to carry when the wilderness but just for emergency use.

    Tip for wilderness cut, wash clothes strips bandages washed in fire ashes and rinsed with safe water, hung in the sun for a time, pee on the wound and wrap it up,keep it covered and dry....in the wilderness a infected cut can kill you. Yes this for people who don't know wild plant medicines. Cattail outer skin is a common and Ok mild antiseptic protection.
    Our body expels poisons through pee so it makes an good/OK antiseptic .

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    Just like running out of TP healthy people with no fever, symptoms or anything taking the corona virus test is just a waste of test kits.

    Some/many news media beating up our supply shortage, but few if any have said "Don't take the test if having no symptoms.

    Some people now have a basement full of TP and likely to throw it away when the need /panic is over.

    Somehow its Trumps fault the hospitals did not have enough test kits/politicking, throw the country in the dumpster to make/get votes for one or the other..

    I own stock in two companies that make test kits and they don't have a warehouse full of every kit because technology changes. They fill orders the hospitals and doctors make. Rate of manufacturing is based on orders.

    Go to the corner Dunkin and say "I want 4,000 doughnuts right now.".... What, are you stupid? or "We will get right on that sir"


    RANT OVER.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    This was sent to me by a friend, purportedly by Johns Hopkins. What I question is the first sentence (it being a DNA rather than RNA assemblage). It also is at least four days old and doesn't cover the aerosol issue. The handling of exposed clothing before washing could have a bit more info. Also not sure about UV being fully effective in sterilizing face masks (but certainly wouldn't hurt to put them out in the sun for three days straight). Still, the characterization of how the virus does / doesn't die seems about right to me:

    Johns Hopkins University has sent this detailed note on avoiding the contagion:

    * The virus is a protein molecule (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipid (fat), which, when absorbed by the cells of the ocular, nasal or buccal mucosa, changes their genetic code. (mutation) and convert them into aggressor and multiplier cells.

    * Since the virus is not a living organism but a protein molecule, it is not killed, but decays on its own. The disintegration time depends on the temperature, humidity and type of material where it lies.

    * The virus is very fragile; the only thing that protects it is a thin outer layer of fat. That is why any soap or detergent is the best remedy, because the foam CUTS the FAT (that is why you have to rub so much: for 20 seconds or more, to make a lot of foam). By dissolving the fat layer, the protein molecule disperses and breaks down on its own.

    * HEAT melts fat; this is why it is so good to use water above 25 degrees Celsius for washing hands, clothes and everything. In addition, hot water makes more foam and that makes it even more useful.

    * Alcohol or any mixture with alcohol over 65% DISSOLVES ANY FAT, especially the external lipid layer of the virus.

    * Any mix with 1 part bleach and 5 parts water directly dissolves the protein, breaks it down from the inside.

    * Oxygenated water helps long after soap, alcohol and chlorine, because peroxide dissolves the virus protein, but you have to use it pure and it hurts your skin.

    * NO BACTERICIDE SERVES. The virus is not a living organism like bacteria; they cannot kill what is not alive with antibiotics, but quickly disintegrate its structure with everything said.

    * NEVER shake used or unused clothing, sheets or cloth. While it is glued to a porous surface, it is very inert and disintegrates only between 3 hours (fabric and porous), 4 hours (copper, because it is naturally antiseptic; and wood, because it removes all the moisture and does not let it peel off and disintegrates). ), 24 hours (cardboard), 42 hours (metal) and 72 hours (plastic). But if you shake it or use a feather duster, the virus molecules float in the air for up to 3 hours, and can lodge in your nose.

    * The virus molecules remain very stable in external cold, or artificial as air conditioners in houses and cars. They also need moisture to stay stable, and especially darkness. Therefore, dehumidified, dry, warm and bright environments will degrade it faster.

    * UV LIGHT on any object that may contain it breaks down the virus protein. For example, to disinfect and reuse a mask is perfect. Be careful, it also breaks down collagen (which is protein) in the skin, eventually causing wrinkles and skin cancer.

    * The virus CANNOT go through healthy skin.

    * Vinegar is NOT useful because it does not break down the protective layer of fat.

    * NO SPIRITS, NOR VODKA, serve. The strongest vodka is 40% alcohol, and you need 65%.

    * LISTERINE IF IT SERVES! It is 65% alcohol.

    * The more confined the space, the more concentration of the virus there can be. The more open or naturally ventilated, the less.

    * This is super said, but you have to wash your hands before and after touching mucosa, food, locks, knobs, switches, remote control, cell phone, watches, computers, desks, TV, etc. And when using the bathroom.

    * You have to HUMIDIFY HANDS DRY from so much washing them, because the molecules can hide in the micro cracks. The thicker the moisturizer, the better.

    * Also keep your NAILS SHORT so that the virus does not hide there.
    Just a small correction: the virus is single strand RNA, not DNA- there are positive and negative , polarities, I guess, I'm not sure which it is, and it doesn't matter in the scheme of things anyway.
    We've all seen the images of the thing- a spiky ball: I think the lipid layer covers the center with the tips of the spikes protruding, the spikes are the attachment points, think plug and socket, how it attaches to a cell, then gets dragged inside where it multiplies. Microbiology, how cells do their stuff is fascinating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    OK, another tip - when they put you on a ventilator - roll on to your tummy to up your chances of living.
    It's called proning, and there's a special bed for that. Always a pain to work around; if you don't pay attention, you'll pull out IV's, pull apart the vent circuit, when you spin the bed. It's always bad when the patient turns blue...

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    Quote Originally Posted by machinistrrt View Post
    It's called proning, and there's a special bed for that.
    What happens if you just ask for a nice morphine shot at that point ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post

    Tip for wilderness cut, wash clothes strips bandages washed in fire ashes and rinsed with safe water, hung in the sun for a time, pee on the wound and wrap it up,keep it covered and dry....in the wilderness a infected cut can kill you. Yes this for people who don't know wild plant medicines. Cattail outer skin is a common and Ok mild antiseptic protection.
    Our body expels poisons through pee so it makes an good/OK antiseptic .
    As the fellow said, God must be a civil engineer. Who else would put a toxic waste disposal pipe through a recreational area?

    Bill

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    Cod liver oil is a source of Iodine but i cant find how much there may be in a teaspoon. I have been using cod liver oil since I was a kid. (My Iodine theory to boost immune system.)
    Cod liver oil iodine – NatureWord

    Jelly fish as a food likely has a high iodine content. I will have to check the corona virus rate in countries the eat the stuff. likely tastes like cod liver oi/seaweed does tat that way

    Jellyfish as food - Wikipedia

    Burma, China, Indonesia, Korea, Malaysia, the Philippines and Thailand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Some people now have a basement full of TP and likely to throw it away when the need /panic is over.
    I wonder when the toilet paper hoarding losers are going to stop? I saw a picture of some guy in his 30's with a whole Costco cart maxed out with only toilet paper. It said at the store that idiot was at people started lining up at 3am at the front door. I have always kept a couple dozen rolls. Not wanting to make the 150 mile round trip to deliver TP, I am going to send my girlfriend a large flat rate box full tomorrow. She and her sons can't find any.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Cod liver oil is a source of Iodine but i cant find how much there may be in a teaspoon. I have been using cod liver oil since I was a kid. (My Iodine theory to boost immune system.)
    Cod liver oil iodine – NatureWord

    Jelly fish as a food likely has a high iodine content. I will have to check the corona virus rate in countries the eat the stuff. likely tastes like cod liver oi/seaweed does tat that way

    Jellyfish as food - Wikipedia

    Burma, China, Indonesia, Korea, Malaysia, the Philippines and Thailand.
    Nope numbers are mixed Indonesia 9% the high , Malaysa the low at 1.1% , USA low at 1.8%
    But USA higher than when I started taking record it was 1.4% at one time.
    Chins 2,6%, New York State 1.4%, Michigan 2.4%.
    *This the death rate to positive tested.
    I read that 10% tested prove positive and then the death rate may be 1 to 10%
    but that source does not have enough credit to be scientific / confirmed..
    Now with lock-down and all precautions the numbers should go down..China new case has gone way down -if numbers are honest.

    A shame all the pork barreling with/added to the USA money being spent on this / what a bunch of crooks.
    It should all be publicly posted. Darn #$XY&$#@ crooks..

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    As the fellow said, God must be a civil engineer. Who else would put a toxic waste disposal pipe through a recreational area?

    Bill
    Or so many remedies / cures out in the field/nature free for the picking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    With due diligence and precautions people should think the corona virus rates should go down,
    *Advil and the like can make the corona virus 10 x worse' the deaths are highest with people who were using this medicine.
    michiganbuck, please state whether you are an MD, or if you have expertise and training in epidemiology. Because if you have neither of those, shut the fuck up. Your ill-considered and unwise repeating and amplification of speculative and incorrect information is incredibly harmful. It's hurting people. Not knowing what you are talking about and repeating every rumor that any idiot on the web writes is just plain stupid. Stop it.

    Here's the current best advice, from WHO: "based on currently available information, WHO does not recommend against the use of ibuprofen. We are also consulting with physicians treating COVID-19 patients and are not aware of reports of any negative side effects of ibuprofen, beyond the usual known side effects that limit its use in certain populations."

    This is a highly stressful time, and in such times people want certainty. And it's comforting to think that "I'm in the know" based upon theories and commentary one might read. It's also true that the best treatment, and the eventual cure for Covid19 IS NOT GOING TO BE FOUND ON SOME OBSCURE WEBSITE CLAIMING SPECIAL/SECRET KNOWLEDGE. Nor on Fox News. Nor from the mouth of Donald Trump, MD. It will come from Docs on the front lines who generate theories and test them in the clinic. And you'll hear about it from Tony Fauci or WHO.

    I'm not saying that this specific theory isn't plausible and hasn't been discussed in scientific circles. The Covid virus seems to infect the lung tissue by binding to a molecular structure on lung epithelium called ACE2 receptors. ACE stands for angiotensinogen converting enzyme. ACE converts a protein, angiotensinogen, to a smaller protein, angiotensin. There's another ACE enzyme that affects blood pressure. Turns out angiotensin increases blood pressure by binding to an angiotensin receptor. So, to lower blood pressure, some folks take ACE inhibitors. Some take Angiotensin Receptor Blockers (ARBs). One theory, for which there appears to be little or no supporting data as yet, is that if you reducing ACE-2 receptors in the lungs, you'd reduce infection rate/severity of Covid-19. Ibuprofen has a slight effect on ACE-2 expression. ARBs have also been discussed but as yet there's no strong data evidence. It may be that there is an effect but that its really small. Or that there's no effect of ARBs or ibuprofen. Or that there's a clinically-relevant effect. We'll see pretty soon if so.

    This is a really rough narrative. Guys, I write math models of this stuff (in fact I finished a project last year modeling what is called the Angiotensin-Renin-Aldosterone system for blood pressure and heart failure studies). I love theories like this. But my advise, based upon doing this for 20 years, is to not give credence to theories (like the above) until there are supporting data. Don't get me wrong: there may be some very slight effect here. Or, there may be no effect. But right now, if you have symptoms, check with someone that has actually studied and is qualified and has practiced medicine and ask him or her for advice. Listening to advice of non-doctors written (or witlessly repeated) on the internet is dangerous. Or on a theory expounded by the president, a couple in Phoenix ingested fish tank cleaner (because it had chloroquine in it, and the president had mentioned, without scientific justification, that its use was promising for Covid) the guy died. The woman was in ICU.

    And for the love of God and all that's holy, unless you are an expert with a deep understanding of all current data, don't repeat theories you know nothing about. Especially don't repeat them as fact. You're not just repeating interesting gossip, you're hurting people.

    I worry that we'll see someone so frightened by the idiotic unsupported rumors about ibuprofen that they take 10 Tylenol and die of liver failure due.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    What happens if you just ask for a nice morphine shot at that point ?
    They send you to China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I would not be surprised if the first week a new president is in office the joint chiefs hold a briefing where they show the zapruder film ....
    What make you think they haven't already done something similar although more subtle with every President since? Assassination attempts against both Ford and Reagan certainly help reinforce the message.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    michiganbuck, please state whether you are an MD, or if you have expertise and training in epidemiology. Because if you have neither of those, shut the fuck up. Your ill-considered and unwise repeating and amplification of speculative and incorrect information is incredibly harmful. It's hurting people. Not knowing what you are talking about and repeating every rumor that any idiot on the web writes is just plain stupid. Stop it.

    Here's the current best advice, from WHO: "based on currently available information, WHO does not recommend against the use of ibuprofen. We are also consulting with physicians treating COVID-19 patients and are not aware of reports of any negative side effects of ibuprofen, beyond the usual known side effects that limit its use in certain populations."

    This is a highly stressful time, and in such times people want certainty. And it's comforting to think that "I'm in the know" based upon theories and commentary one might read. It's also true that the best treatment, and the eventual cure for Covid19 IS NOT GOING TO BE FOUND ON SOME OBSCURE WEBSITE CLAIMING SPECIAL/SECRET KNOWLEDGE. Nor on Fox News. Nor from the mouth of Donald Trump, MD. It will come from Docs on the front lines who generate theories and test them in the clinic. And you'll hear about it from Tony Fauci or WHO.

    I'm not saying that this specific theory isn't plausible and hasn't been discussed in scientific circles. The Covid virus seems to infect the lung tissue by binding to a molecular structure on lung epithelium called ACE2 receptors. ACE stands for angiotensinogen converting enzyme. ACE converts a protein, angiotensinogen, to a smaller protein, angiotensin. There's another ACE enzyme that affects blood pressure. Turns out angiotensin increases blood pressure by binding to an angiotensin receptor. So, to lower blood pressure, some folks take ACE inhibitors. Some take Angiotensin Receptor Blockers (ARBs). One theory, for which there appears to be little or no supporting data as yet, is that if you reducing ACE-2 receptors in the lungs, you'd reduce infection rate/severity of Covid-19. Ibuprofen has a slight effect on ACE-2 expression. ARBs have also been discussed but as yet there's no strong data evidence. It may be that there is an effect but that its really small. Or that there's no effect of ARBs or ibuprofen. Or that there's a clinically-relevant effect. We'll see pretty soon if so.

    This is a really rough narrative. Guys, I write math models of this stuff (in fact I finished a project last year modeling what is called the Angiotensin-Renin-Aldosterone system for blood pressure and heart failure studies). I love theories like this. But my advise, based upon doing this for 20 years, is to not give credence to theories (like the above) until there are supporting data. Don't get me wrong: there may be some very slight effect here. Or, there may be no effect. But right now, if you have symptoms, check with someone that has actually studied and is qualified and has practiced medicine and ask him or her for advice. Listening to advice of non-doctors written (or witlessly repeated) on the internet is dangerous. Or on a theory expounded by the president, a couple in Phoenix ingested fish tank cleaner (because it had chloroquine in it, and the president had mentioned, without scientific justification, that its use was promising for Covid) the guy died. The woman was in ICU.

    And for the love of God and all that's holy, unless you are an expert with a deep understanding of all current data, don't repeat theories you know nothing about. Especially don't repeat them as fact. You're not just repeating interesting gossip, you're hurting people.

    I worry that we'll see someone so frightened by the idiotic unsupported rumors about ibuprofen that they take 10 Tylenol and die of liver failure due.
    The original message came from a doctor at the Harvard Medical Hospital. I will try to find the original date. If true/proven likely they will post a warning.
    I don't care if you use Advil or not. What you is your own business. I am not a doctor or an expert on machining, not even grinding.
    Here we just post what we think we know, trying to be helpful to our friends..

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    Here find some published material. I have not yet read all of it but I will.
    Coronavirus Resource Center - Harvard Health Dated March 27, 2020


    Ok I read it all and found what I said is True.

    (all 8602 words...with taking notes and checking some references..)

    RE: *The WHO initially recommended using acetaminophen instead of ibuprofen.


    Advil is an ibuprofen Also Motrin so read the Ingredients... (*ibuprofen None)

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    I realized I was unconsciously using a disease avoidance technique in the stores. Now I use it consciously. When I walk past another person closer then 6 feet I exhale or hold my breath until I am 6 feet or more past them. Easy and simple with the stores so empty. Not so long I get short of breath or anything crazy like that.
    I have noticed talking outside to neighbors they do not seem to notice wind direction. I move to either be upwind or at least talking across the wind, not downwind for me. I think this may be tied to so many people who are confused when I give directions by north south east west instead of left right.
    Bil lD.
    Bill D

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