O.T. Sunken U.S. WW II desroyer wreckage found
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    Default O.T. Sunken U.S. WW II desroyer wreckage found

    The Johnston, a destroyer that attacked a Japanese armada with almost no chance of survival was recently located in deep water off the coast of Leyte. Hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned, Commander Ernest Evans and his crew, attacking with torpedoes blew the bow off of the heavy cruiser Kumano forcing her out of line. Continuing to attack with their "peashooter" 5 inch guns, the ferocity of the Johnston and the other ships of Taffy 3 convinced Admiral Kurita that he was facing a much larger battle group and retreated. Without the incredible bravery of these "Tin Can Sailors" and all the other men of this hopelessly outmatched battle group, the Japanese armada would have totally smashed the American invasion force on Leyte, killing tens of thousands of American troops, including my uncle, a soldier in that force. We must never forget about these brave men who selflessly gave their lives for the rest of us. This engagement was just one of the many that was fought in this campaign, some saying it was the largest naval battle ever fought. I salute all the men and women of the U.S military who have served, or are serving our great nation.

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    Default Thanks for your post...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
    The Johnston, a destroyer that attacked a Japanese armada with almost no chance of survival was recently located in deep water off the coast of Leyte. Hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned, Commander Ernest Evans and his crew, attacking with torpedoes blew the bow off of the heavy cruiser Kumano forcing her out of line. Continuing to attack with their "peashooter" 5 inch guns, the ferocity of the Johnston and the other ships of Taffy 3 convinced Admiral Kurita that he was facing a much larger battle group and retreated. Without the incredible bravery of these "Tin Can Sailors" and all the other men of this hopelessly outmatched battle group, the Japanese armada would have totally smashed the American invasion force on Leyte, killing tens of thousands of American troops, including my uncle, a soldier in that force. We must never forget about these brave men who selflessly gave their lives for the rest of us. This engagement was just one of the many that was fought in this campaign, some saying it was the largest naval battle ever fought. I salute all the men and women of the U.S military who have served, or are serving our great nation.
    My father served on the Battleship Maryland (BB46) and fought in the Battle of Leyte Gulf...

    Three days after the battle, the Maryland was on patrol in Leyte Gulf firing in support of U.S. ground troops on Leyte island. A Japanese Kamikaze flying a Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa ‘Oscar’ dropped out of the clouds and struck the Maryland between her number one and two front turrets on 29 November, 1944.

    Thirty one sailors died in that attack and thirty more were wounded, including my father. My father said his shipmates on the Maryland always referred to the sailors that served on the USS Johnston (DD-557) during the Leyte Gulf battle as “The Bravest of the Brave.”

    Thanks to all of our armed forces members past and present for their service to our nation.
    Last edited by Monticello; 04-11-2021 at 07:11 PM.

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    The Youtuber "Drachinifel" does a great series of guides on WW2 and earlier era warships, and has at least two that would be of interest:

    USS Johnston - Guide 128 - YouTube

    The Battle of Samar - Odds? What are those? - YouTube

    For anyone with an interest in the ships and events of this war, I strongly recommend Drach's channel. Another good one is here:

    Montemayor - YouTube

    And I agree that the bravery of these commanders and crews was extraordinary.

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    Try to imaigne the vagina-boys of today fighting like that. I sure can't.

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    I read this some years back- worth looking up:

    https://www.amazon.com/Last-Stand-Ti.../dp/0553381482

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    Try to imaigne the vagina-boys of today fighting like that. I sure can't.
    Their attitude has not changed - "natural" envaginators among them - or "whichever".

    Or their feet would not BE IN the boots out at the sharp point of the spear on, adjacent, or over the sand.

    Good on 'em. Any era. F**k wit' 'em at your peril.

    What HAS changed is that we no longer give the Mike Foxtrot free-range rude anything even close to an "even break" that Imperial Japan THOUGHT they had.

    Or so we may still hope is the attitude, "SOP / SIOP" endemic.... given the "Resolute Desk" is unattended of late.....off the back of some sort of illness.. or several.

    Ever notice the neck of a bottle is at the top?

    And empty?

    The contents that matter are down below that empty neck.

    To pour from it?

    One inverts the bottle. Trapped gas bubble floats to the top. Out of the way.

    The important stuff - milk, malt, or Molotov - is what fills yer cup.

    T'was ever thus.

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    Interesting side note on that battle. The 16” shells from the battle ships would pass completely through the destroyer escorts without exploding. They had to hit something solid like the engine or gun turret to detonate. Being a “tin can” actually prolonged the battle. The Japanese plan to divert our main battle fleet worked, they won the battle but didn’t know it. Could have gone on to completely destroy our landing force.

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    I believe there were 2 Japanese super battleships in this campaign. They fire 18.1 inch guns, the largest naval guns ever put on a ship. You are right about the shells passing completely through the ships without exploding.

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    On a side note, I posted this thread to give tribute to those who fought in the war, not to give a platform to the people who would denigrate our current forces.

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    Default O.T. Sunken U.S. WW II desroyer wreckage found

    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    Try to imaigne the vagina-boys of today fighting like that. I sure can't.
    What a fucking pathetic contribution to this otherwise inspiring thread.

    --

    Gobo, thanks for sharing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickyb View Post
    The Japanese plan to divert our main battle fleet worked, they won the battle but didn’t know it. Could have gone on to completely destroy our landing force.
    No, they did not win. Nor would they have been able to stop the invasion.

    It might have needed but a third of the 19 torpedoes and 17 bombs that sank Musashi. Yamato went down to but 7 torpedoes, 12 bombs, Shinano but four torpedoes, only.

    Each one represented two and one half YEARS worth of prewar Japan's capacity for raw steel production.

    Or a rounding-error for America's mills.

    Of that era.

    Just that stark, the difference.

    "C'mon, man. China's no thr........."

    很好吃的食物!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
    I believe there were 2 Japanese super battleships in this campaign. They fire 18.1 inch guns, the largest naval guns ever put on a ship. You are right about the shells passing completely through the ships without exploding.
    Yes. The Battle of Leyte Gulf was a multi-stage affair over the course of ~3 days. Musashi was sunk in the Sibuyan Sea while the Japanese Center Force was transiting east enroute to Leyte Gulf. Yamato and the remainder of the Center Force were then turned back by Johnston and the rest of Taffy 3, and Taffy 1 & 2.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
    The Johnston, a destroyer that attacked a Japanese armada with almost no chance of survival was recently located in deep water off the coast of Leyte. Hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned, Commander Ernest Evans and his crew, attacking with torpedoes blew the bow off of the heavy cruiser Kumano forcing her out of line. Continuing to attack with their "peashooter" 5 inch guns, the ferocity of the Johnston and the other ships of Taffy 3 convinced Admiral Kurita that he was facing a much larger battle group and retreated. Without the incredible bravery of these "Tin Can Sailors" and all the other men of this hopelessly outmatched battle group, the Japanese armada would have totally smashed the American invasion force on Leyte, killing tens of thousands of American troops, including my uncle, a soldier in that force. We must never forget about these brave men who selflessly gave their lives for the rest of us. This engagement was just one of the many that was fought in this campaign, some saying it was the largest naval battle ever fought. I salute all the men and women of the U.S military who have served, or are serving our great nation.
    Commander Evans deserved the Medal of Honor he received posthumously.

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    Battleship armor was refered to as all or nothing. All of it would stop a 50 caliber bullet but a 3" or so shell could go all the way through without arming and detonating. Only the center of the ship including the turrets and ammunition storage, engines etc was behind the thick armor.
    Bill D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    Battleship armor was refered to as all or nothing. All of it would stop a 50 caliber bullet but a 3" or so shell could go all the way through without arming and detonating. Only the center of the ship including the turrets and ammunition storage, engines etc was behind the thick armor.
    Bill D
    All or Nothing armor was one of the strategies used for warships, not their exclusive method.

    For a good overview on armor, these Drach videos are (IMHO) worthwhile watching:

    A Brief History of Naval Armour - Successfully Forging Onwards - YouTube

    Armoured and Unarmoured Carriers - Survivability vs Strike Power - YouTube

    The All or Nothing Armour Scheme - Special (Human Voice) - YouTube


    And the counterpoint (literally):

    The development of the Naval Shell - Stop poking holes in my ship! - YouTube

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    BTW, the people administering the mass-vaccination center I went to yesterday were mostly Navy, and a fine group of youngsters they were.

    We can be proud of those willing to serve, whether in the 40's or the 2020's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    Try to imaigne the vagina-boys of today fighting like that. I sure can't.
    No idea if that would be true or not as the last person I personally knew that served left the service over 25 years ago. I know sports has been sissified with participation trophies and youth coaches getting fired for what back in my day would be considered normal behavior. So are drill sergeants saying pretty please and not yelling and cussing anymore?

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    It seems that many wrecks have been disappearing, it is irrelevant to the salvagers that they are war graves, they have no respect for those lost, just interested in the scrap, seems a demand for pre nuclear ir remarkably high, apparently hundreds have disappeared, a certain eastern country is implicated
    Hardly surprising, like intellectual property perhaps they’re just borrowing the ships.
    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    So are drill sergeants saying pretty please and not yelling and cussing anymore?
    ROFL!

    It would not make one IOTA of difference!

    A Combat Arms Tactical Training OFFICER, training all-VOLUNTEER officers-to-be uses INORDINATELY gentlemanly language.

    Half or more pass. Not all others quit fast enough to remain sane.

    Tricky balance to it.

    To the present day?
    News media still has the odd incident of deaths in training, yah?

    Sharp point of the spear still is.

    "Winning formula" hasn't changed much in over 8,000 years.

    A team has no time for whining, posturing, nor drama.
    They just do.
    Or BE done.

    Why did you THINK winners got to write history?

    Lack of surviving competition work for yah?

    Not one of MY student's names on that G-damned Black Wall.

    Not ONE!

    And I checked it for years.

    The psych ward as well.

    Until the head of it told me five years out there was never going to be a recovery.

    Nothing ever as cometh for free, nor even easy.


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