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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by boslab View Post
    It seems that many wrecks have been disappearing, it is irrelevant to the salvagers that they are war graves, they have no respect for those lost, just interested in the scrap, seems a demand for pre nuclear ir remarkably high, apparently hundreds have disappeared, a certain eastern country is implicated
    Hardly surprising, like intellectual property perhaps they’re just borrowing the ships.
    Mark
    I would think in most instances the cost of recovery would not be worth the trouble unless the ship was hauling valuable cargo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    I would think in most instances the cost of recovery would not be worth the trouble unless the ship was hauling valuable cargo.
    The massive bronze props are very valuable, and as mentioned, for some applications the pre-Bomb steel is useful too when low-background radiation materials are needed (CAT scanners and such).

    Why do we build medical scanners from sunken battleships? - science made simple

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    Clamp your pie-hole, you liberal muck. Round up 10 of your best man-bun, skinny jean coffee shop boys and let's see how they fare in battle. You are the just fucking pathetic 'gina boy I'm talking about.

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    Hard-hitting... I have a lot to think about. I'll consider that over a cup of coffee tomorrow with the boys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    Clamp your pie-hole, you liberal muck. Round up 10 of your best man-bun, skinny jean coffee shop boys and let's see how they fare in battle. You are the just fucking pathetic 'gina boy I'm talking about.
    Not sure just what this a-hole is trying to compensate for, but it's back on the ignore list for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Not sure just what this a-hole is trying to compensate for, but it's back on the ignore list for him.
    Nobody actually gives a s**t if you be straight, gay, or simply nay.
    Nobody cares how you voted nor even IF.

    Western world's most consistently successful Battle Commander since Alexander the Great was a turd-burgler.

    BFD. Weren't MY turd. Why care?

    All they care about is if you are on-side, bystander, or threat.

    Your proud career choice of hate America HARD and spin endless lies about it, OTOH?

    Theatre of Operations? That can generate just one more "clear your six" vehicle accident in about twelve minutes?

    Some vicious parasites are less safely ignored in edgy places than when safely s**tting into a keyboard, back in the world, no more threat to anyone than any other few ounces of useless overhead to be carried.

    Combat zone? Shits just unhappen when yah clear six.

    You branded yourself. Nobody forced you to. Nor ever even gave a damn.

    Wanted fame or notoriety?

    You got what you wished for.

    Now you can JFDWT

    TANSTAAFL

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    I think GregSY is referring to the general public boys of today, not those fully trained for war by the military. There is good evidence that he's correct from one of my friend's sons who just entered the Marines. He said there were quite a few of those types of boys pissing their pants while being hollered at by drill sergeants. Literally. As in puddles under their feet. Never been exposed to a raised hand or voice apparently. I ain't raising my boy like that, I can tell you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eKretz View Post
    I think GregSY is referring to the general public boys of today, not those fully trained for war by the military. There is good evidence that he's correct from one of my friend's sons who just entered the Marines. He said there were quite a few of those types of boys pissing their pants while being hollered at by drill sergeants. Literally. As in puddles under their feet. Never been exposed to a raised hand or voice apparently. I ain't raising my boy like that, I can tell you.
    More than one of the absolute calmest and coolest under fire I have ever had the privilege to train, rate, and Commission as Combat Engineer Officers had never been harshly treated. Only honestly treated.

    EG: Not sheltered. Responsible for their own actions, regardless of the outcome.

    Sound like a maxim of leadership? That's a feature, not a bug.

    One either develops supreme confidence in command of self. No excuses offered or needed. Do the do. Take the heat. Win or lose.

    Or does not.

    My graduation address to proud parents?

    The Corps of Engineer's thanks for delivering to us men already shaped as officer material and leaders.

    You don't create that in 21 weeks.

    You mine gold for it.

    Then inject it with add-on speciality skills to generate superb ground combat commanders. And learn FROM them as well.

    Proudest days?

    "That WAS NOT the 'school solution'!

    "It IS NOW!"

    Five of those.

    Must have gotten SOMETHING right? And each wave raises their bar a tad higher than the last.




    Belvoir's "opening" edge? First dibs at the top of the IQ pyramid, but..IQ, had SQRT-FA to do with suitability to stand stress or lead others to stand it with you and prevail, regardless.

    Hence the few mental collapses.

    "Dummies" do not fare well on the field of battle, ANY combat arms. So "dummies" they are not. But rock solid, ever alert, "street-wise", PEOPLE WISE, able to adapt and improvise, stay sharply focused, regardless, function as a TEAM without delay, discussion, or conscious thought?

    THAT.. is what the best of the best need more than ability to design a hasty bridge or an atom bomb without pencil or paper.

    SEAL, Delta, SAS, SBS, GSG9, and a lot more. Jokes about the French? Believe them not. Danes are kinda peaceful-dull? Not all of them. Swiss haven't fought a war since 1815? Not because they know not how.

    Every nation, large or small, has their elite as can - and do - go forth as the point BEYOND the sharp point of their spear.

    Do not assume they cannot plan and execute to seriously complex schemes.

    Do not expect to know they are coming.

    Do not think you have them outnumbered.

    Altering YOUR dance-card to THEIR plan is what they do.

    Even seasoned "conventional warfare" folks have a hard time understanding their "why" for doing it as a "Day job" and more than just the one time?

    Because reckless, gambler, dare the devil, immature, or dick-swinging adventurer?

    They are the exact OPPOSITE of.

    They just have a different sense of "odds" when they can tilt the whole playing field as standard practice. Better yet? Move at will before anyone knows they have come, done, and gone again.

    Tomorrow's mission completed day before yesterday is good.

    Where do they GET this s**t?

    Not from whiner-blamer-hater-liar incompetent parasites, that much is for G-damned certain!

    From the most competent, no-excuses, and predictably reliable "winners" in a self-reliant society is where.

    Competitive societies.

    Ever ordered from MariTool?

    You figure his counterpart is a day late or a unit short at putting lethal ordnance on-target?

    Not often enough to save your ass if you be the target.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eKretz View Post
    I think GregSY is referring to the general public boys of today, not those fully trained for war by the military. There is good evidence that he's correct from one of my friend's sons who just entered the Marines. He said there were quite a few of those types of boys pissing their pants while being hollered at by drill sergeants. Literally. As in puddles under their feet. Never been exposed to a raised hand or voice apparently. I ain't raising my boy like that, I can tell you.
    And he would be wrong just as you are.

    I worked with a WWII marine who served in the pacific throughout the war going in with the boys to land on those bloody islands.
    He saw plenty of war and and blood spilled including his own as in those beach landings being injured three times and sent back into battle after each.

    He told me lots of stories about it.
    One was of those boys standing in their own piss at boot camp in the marines.
    He avoided it because he came from a long line of marines and they had set him straight on what to expect and told him to hold it together by staring at the clouds dancing along just past the hairline of the sergeant screaming at you.

    He wasn't any mans man who got screamed at as a child or toughened by the "raised hand".
    As a man he was soft spoken with a good sense of humor.
    Just a guy who had made it home.
    He was just a boy as they all were when sent to that war.


    Study the period a bit- desertions were epidemic in both theaters- it was hell and many folded under the pressure.
    Many more stood to the line and we made it through but it wasn't some damn John Wayne movie.
    Apparently these guys shit their pants and cried because it was enough to make anyone break on occasion.
    The guy I knew joked that the dungarees were loose legged so they could shake the shit out after crapping their pants.
    There were suicides and war crimes and all the hell that doesn't get made into movies.

    So I don't see much difference from today.
    Young men go off to war and die and suffer through it as they always do.
    The difference is in a real war folks drop the crap about attacking other Americans and just get to getting the job done.


    Some here are just taking the opportunity to make stupid political points which are so damn common today.
    They are making hay because well because they are not called up to piss their pants and cry and bleed in a major war.

    They should just shut the hell up and refrain from voicing their crap on this thread.

    Have some respect.
    Have some damn respect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
    I believe there were 2 Japanese super battleships in this campaign. They fire 18.1 inch guns, the largest naval guns ever put on a ship. You are right about the shells passing completely through the ships without exploding.
    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    No, they did not win. Nor would they have been able to stop the invasion.

    It might have needed but a third of the 19 torpedoes and 17 bombs that sank Musashi. Yamato went down to but 7 torpedoes, 12 bombs, Shinano but four torpedoes, only.

    Each one represented two and one half YEARS worth of prewar Japan's capacity for raw steel production.

    Or a rounding-error for America's mills.

    Of that era.

    Just that stark, the difference.

    "C'mon, man. China's no thr........."

    很好吃的食物!
    Yes, both the Musahi and the Yamato were at this battle. Halesy or Nimitz was in charge of the Group. He chased a Japanese Aircraft carrier, that was a decoy. The Japanese group had turned around to feint retreat. They did a U turn during the night.
    All that stood in their way was some pocket Aircraft carriers and light destroyers. The only thing the Light Destroyers had were torpedos. I believe they had to get within 3 miles and the Japanese had a 6 mile range. They were trying to disrupt the Japanese Group so the Pocket Carriers could launch aircraft. If the Japanese Group had broken through, they would have supplied their troups. Plus, the Musahi and Yamoto would have made great defense guns, with a 20 mile (?) radius range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    And he would be wrong just as you are.

    I worked with a WWII marine who served in the pacific throughout the war going in with the boys to land on those bloody islands.
    He saw plenty of war and and blood spilled including his own as in those beach landings being injured three times and sent back into battle after each.

    He told me lots of stories about it.
    One was of those boys standing in their own piss at boot camp in the marines.
    He avoided it because he came from a long line of marines and they had set him straight on what to expect and told him to hold it together by staring at the clouds dancing along just past the hairline of the sergeant screaming at you.

    He wasn't any mans man who got screamed at as a child or toughened by the "raised hand".
    As a man he was soft spoken with a good sense of humor.
    Just a guy who had made it home.
    He was just a boy as they all were when sent to that war.


    Study the period a bit- desertions were epidemic in both theaters- it was hell and many folded under the pressure.
    Many more stood to the line and we made it through but it wasn't some damn John Wayne movie.
    Apparently these guys shit their pants and cried because it was enough to make anyone break on occasion.
    The guy I knew joked that the dungarees were loose legged so they could shake the shit out after crapping their pants.
    There were suicides and war crimes and all the hell that doesn't get made into movies.

    So I don't see much difference from today.
    Young men go off to war and die and suffer through it as they always do.
    The difference is in a real war folks drop the crap about attacking other Americans and just get to getting the job done.


    Some here are just taking the opportunity to make stupid political points which are so damn common today.
    They are making hay because well because they are not called up to piss their pants and cry and bleed in a major war.

    They should just shut the hell up and refrain from voicing their crap on this thread.

    Have some respect.
    Have some damn respect.
    Got it in one. Ordinary guys. Different job.

    It can also get serious COMICAL, too!

    Tactical Training Officers at Belvoir BETTING on whom had the fastest Candidate at a standard run.

    One guy is damned-near LAPPING the others.

    One of the Black hats losing the bet sez:

    "Who TF does that OC think he IS? Mel Pender?"

    The winner who had sandbagged ever' body's ass sez:

    "Well no. He THINKS he is Superman."
    "But he's only Mel Pender!"

    And he was not at Sill or Benning or Hood.

    He'd clocked a high enough score to be at Belvoir.

    ====

    A QMC Company in 'nam is soooo AFU with a gang of big, tough black guys actually running it as they see fit, the Captain as useless as a coat of blue latex paint on the Pacific Ocean is replaced.

    A young Lootenant is given Command.

    First thing he does is a tad "unconventional" for a change of command formation:

    "Any of you black M**F think he is more of a Bad Ass than I am?"

    Toughest one - heavier-built by far - grins, steps forward.

    Jerry walks up to him says "Are you serious?". Guy nod and grins, figures they will go for the gloves and have a show.

    Jerry simply slapped him. Dropped him in his tracks, not the LEAST flicker of warning, out cold, hairline skull fracture.

    Next two had THAT much warning, did them no good whatsoever. Slapped upside the head. Out cold in one.

    OWNED his new Company. Discipline went to Brown Shoe Army same damned day.

    He and I larfing over it, O. Club, late that night, a curious QMC CPT from another Company comes up":

    "Lt..W I uhh heard some stuff" "Uhh were those guys ah uhm ah .. er. a . " Were they 'dark"?"

    Six foot plus-too-tall of rolling belly laugh from a Semi-pro basketball player with hands the size of tennis rackets. But HEAVY!

    "Well? compared to you they were "dark".

    "But compared to ME? Those M*F**s may as well have been WHITE!"

    .. and that was another good memory of a shitty little war.

    Ordinary folks.

    All kinds.

    NOBODY wanted to make a career out of it, either.

    Git 'er done.

    Get "back to the world"

    Find a good "round eye" woman.

    Do the usual human thing thereafter. Try to see the kids got a better deal

    Keep a low profile so fewer kommie-parasites were tempted to spit on yah.

    That worked, too. Had to for far too many years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    And he would be wrong just as you are.

    I worked with a WWII marine who served in the pacific throughout the war going in with the boys to land on those bloody islands.
    He saw plenty of war and and blood spilled including his own as in those beach landings being injured three times and sent back into battle after each.

    He told me lots of stories about it.
    One was of those boys standing in their own piss at boot camp in the marines.
    He avoided it because he came from a long line of marines and they had set him straight on what to expect and told him to hold it together by staring at the clouds dancing along just past the hairline of the sergeant screaming at you.

    He wasn't any mans man who got screamed at as a child or toughened by the "raised hand".
    As a man he was soft spoken with a good sense of humor.
    Just a guy who had made it home.
    He was just a boy as they all were when sent to that war.


    Study the period a bit- desertions were epidemic in both theaters- it was hell and many folded under the pressure.
    Many more stood to the line and we made it through but it wasn't some damn John Wayne movie.
    Apparently these guys shit their pants and cried because it was enough to make anyone break on occasion.
    The guy I knew joked that the dungarees were loose legged so they could shake the shit out after crapping their pants.
    There were suicides and war crimes and all the hell that doesn't get made into movies.

    So I don't see much difference from today.
    Young men go off to war and die and suffer through it as they always do.
    The difference is in a real war folks drop the crap about attacking other Americans and just get to getting the job done.


    Some here are just taking the opportunity to make stupid political points which are so damn common today.
    They are making hay because well because they are not called up to piss their pants and cry and bleed in a major war.

    They should just shut the hell up and refrain from voicing their crap on this thread.

    Have some respect.
    Have some damn respect.
    I'm sure there isn't a man here who doesn't have respect for those serving our country in the military. So lighten up a little. And raising a boy so he doesn't piss his pants at a little bit of a raised voice is a hell of a good thing in my book. A raised voice and hand (whipping a kid's butt when they need it) are not synonymous with being abusive. I can count the number of times I've had to use a spanking as discipline on one hand. Those things teach coping skills so that young men don't piss their pants during such occurrences, just like your example's parent did for him. That can be taught by the parents or by the DI... Far better to be taught by the parents... Not every kid joins the military...

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  17. #33
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    I went through US Navy Bootcamp in Great Lakes, IL in the winter of 2001/2002.

    Military bootcamp is a science. It doesn't work if you don't do it right. They haven't changed it to my knowledge, although, the bootcamp divisions with females are a completely different thing. Females don't go to bootcamp. They think they do, but they don't.

    I don't remember anybody pissing themselves, but frankly, I don't remember having time to look for piss anywhere.

    I remember this real big mean looking black dude in my division didn't listen so good after the first few days. The other 89 of us stood at attention at the end of our racks all night while two of our drill sargeants made him do 8 counts until he stopped then beat him until he would start again until he was crying and begging. Nobody got the normal 2 hours of sleep that night and that black dude didn't miss a step the next day.

    There was one "sissy guy" that said he was suicidal. He was processed out pretty quick.

    I remember eating as much as I could possibly consume at every meal so I had enough to get through the next hours. I know I went in an 145 lbs and came out at 225 lbs 2 months later.


    I remember some of the lines to a few cadence songs.

    I remember at about the 7 week mark there's a make or break test and you're up for about 50-60 hours straight running full speed not knowing what the fuck is going on, no food, no sleep, some water, just following orders. At the end of that they explain you made it, tell you're now government property and hand you a hat that says Navy on it. That hat was everyone's most prized possession in the universe that day.

    I remember, at the end, pulling my gas mask off in the CS gas chamber and how that sucked, but it wasn't shit compared to what we'd already been through.

    That was the point. Bootcamp is designed to change the way you think. It psychologically programs you to follow orders and turns wimpy kids into instruments of war.

    My FIL went through Army bootcamp in the early 80's, my Dad went through Army bootcamp in 1967. All experiences about the same.

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