O.T.- Surviving Coronavirus
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    Default O.T.- Surviving Coronavirus

    This is a Covid-19-related posting. Source was a doctor interviewed by CBS News at about 8:00 am today. He recommended that everyone take their oxygen levels daily. He added that Coronavirus patients “presenting” at ER’s often had blood oxygen levels half of normal, and he was surprised they could still walk around. So I ordered an oximeter, many choices online, family member says Costco doesn’t currently have them. He added that many CV patients don’t need ventilators, but if they let the disease progress untreated their oxygen levels are so low and CO2 levels so high that a ventilator is needed. My oximeter is weeks away but at least I’ll have one.

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    Half the normal sounds suspicious, normal level is something like 95-99% and AFAIK many hospitals use 93-92% as a indication for hospitalization.

    I bought my own pulse oximeter about 4 weeks ago when others were hoarding TP..

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Half the normal sounds suspicious, normal level is something like 95-99% and AFAIK many hospitals use 93-92% as a indication for hospitalization.

    I bought my own pulse oximeter about 4 weeks ago when others were hoarding TP..
    I've read reports from respiratory therapists about seeing people in the 80s even with maximum positive pressure, which sounds horrifying.

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    Got mine. Ordered a month ago, took 2 weeks.

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    Ive been keeping loose tabs on the ventilation thing, seems less is more in many cases.
    I think this guy was near the front, all his videos worth a watch.


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    Sorry, but I'm just a little suspicious of any promotions that EVERYONE should check their oxygen levels daily. I do pay attention to the CDC and WHO advice but there are just way too many doctors promoting things for me to check their credentials or qualifications and crosscheck their advice. Does he have stock in an oximeter manufacturer by any chance? And how can there possibly enough supply if everyone actually took his advice. So what about Dr. Oz, Dr. Phil, and all the other voices clamoring for you to take their opinion?

    I have no criticism of anyone who wants to do it on their own, but then people are taking any number of quack remedies and procedures and it doesn't make them a good idea.

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    OTOH.....what harm is it going to do??
    last thing you want to do is go to the hospital if you dont gotta.

    for ~20 bucks seems like a pretty decent idea.

    image.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    I bought my own pulse oximeter about 4 weeks ago when others were hoarding TP..
    As did I.

    I bought an expensive Nonin one, because I didn't want to entrust such an important task to a £15 plastic gadget of unknown origin, although by all accounts the very cheap ones work just fine.

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    Demon,

    I read a long article several years ago about hyperbaric treatment. Some doctor in Kansas City was promoting and using it during the 30's or so. What finally made the penny drop for me was the explanation that just increasing oxygen concentration can't increase oxygen level in the body beyond a certain point. It simply won't transfer any more from one side to the other. Increasing the atmospheric pressure pushes the oxygen transfer past that barrier. So some infections are hard for the body to combat because the body can't get more oxygen fuel to the place it's needed for the work. That's where hyperbaric treatment can increase the body's own ability to fight. Sounds like that might be the same case for this disease.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TGTool View Post
    Sorry, but I'm just a little suspicious of any promotions that EVERYONE should check their oxygen levels daily. I do pay attention to the CDC and WHO advice but there are just way too many doctors promoting things for me to check their credentials or qualifications and crosscheck their advice. Does he have stock in an oximeter manufacturer by any chance? And how can there possibly enough supply if everyone actually took his advice. So what about Dr. Oz, Dr. Phil, and all the other voices clamoring for you to take their opinion?

    I have no criticism of anyone who wants to do it on their own, but then people are taking any number of quack remedies and procedures and it doesn't make them a good idea.
    I understand where youre coming from and mostly agree TG. Theres a fair few front line voices now pointing to out of place 'low oxygen levels' and questioning traditional treatment protocols. You can get a cheapy fingertip effort, is what they used on my nan in hospital iirc. Providing you can still get one at a half sensible price theres no real downside, providing we dont start thinking were doctors that is

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    Quote Originally Posted by TGTool View Post
    Demon,

    I read a long article several years ago about hyperbaric treatment. Some doctor in Kansas City was promoting and using it during the 30's or so. What finally made the penny drop for me was the explanation that just increasing oxygen concentration can't increase oxygen level in the body beyond a certain point. It simply won't transfer any more from one side to the other. Increasing the atmospheric pressure pushes the oxygen transfer past that barrier. So some infections are hard for the body to combat because the body can't get more oxygen fuel to the place it's needed for the work. That's where hyperbaric treatment can increase the body's own ability to fight. Sounds like that might be the same case for this disease.
    Before the covid, these people were advertising quite hard, listing many ailments that their process could help:
    Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy - Oxford Recovery Center

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    Quote Originally Posted by TGTool View Post
    I read a long article several years ago about hyperbaric treatment. Some doctor in Kansas City was promoting and using it during the 30's or so. What finally made the penny drop for me was the explanation that just increasing oxygen concentration can't increase oxygen level in the body beyond a certain point. It simply won't transfer any more from one side to the other. Increasing the atmospheric pressure pushes the oxygen transfer past that barrier. So some infections are hard for the body to combat because the body can't get more oxygen fuel to the place it's needed for the work. That's where hyperbaric treatment can increase the body's own ability to fight. Sounds like that might be the same case for this disease.
    Ive only just come across the hyperbaric thing tbh TG, making the air more dense seems to make sense if Dr Cameron Kyle-Sidell is barking up the right tree, he suggests symptoms resembling altitude sickness, in that patients are presenting with low oxygen levels but arnt 'worn out' from the effort of trying to fill 'stiff lungs'. Forcefully ventilating these patients can apparently do further damage to their 'supple lungs'.
    I like his keep an open mind approach, can be hard work in the face of entrenched views tho.

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    Hyperbaric chamber might be even better than ventilator but it makes supportive care more difficult and for each hyperbaric chambers there is probably 100 ventilators.

    Small hyperbaric chamber would be actually lot easier DIY project for most forum members than ventilator..

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    Pretty wild and interesting idea for large scale hyperbaric chambers:
    Airliners could have role as Covid-19 hyperbaric oxygen chambers | The Engineer The Engineer

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Hyperbaric chamber might be even better than ventilator but it makes supportive care more difficult and for each hyperbaric chambers there is probably 100 ventilators.

    Small hyperbaric chamber would be actually lot easier DIY project for most forum members than ventilator..
    "Small" meaning it has to hold an entire human - minimum - AND NOT drive the poor bugger insane off the back of claustrophobia?

    Tough-enough for professional divers to deal with. The "untrained"? Harder-yet!
    Might have to be in induced coma for med staff to be able to keep-up with more than one at a time?

    One wonders..... about liquid exchange to raise blood-Oxygen levels.

    Think artificial heart-lung machine technology, adapted?

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    HALF normal blood O2? As in <50? I think you'd already be dead...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Pretty wild and interesting idea for large scale hyperbaric chambers:
    Airliners could have role as Covid-19 hyperbaric oxygen chambers | The Engineer The Engineer
    Pumping pure ox into something not already rated/designed/cleaned for it is dangerous at the least.

    Irresponsibility is reigning today I see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Pumping pure ox into something not already rated/designed/cleaned for it is dangerous at the least.

    Irresponsibility is reigning today I see.
    I think the idea was to use normal air to pressurize the airplane body and supply oxygen via nasal cannulas or masks. Airplanes already have oxygen distribution systems and masks so that would be added bonus.

    Airplane filled with pure oxygen above normal pressure would be madness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    HALF normal blood O2? As in <50? I think you'd already be dead...
    Not necessarily. My Dad made "medical history" circa 1951. "Only briefly" because Medical Science went on a tear and discovered the differences between individual humans were far greater than they thought.

    Lab technican is looking at a blood sample under a microscope, asks the Doctor:

    "What did he die of?"

    "Doc says. he isn't "dead". He's upstairs in a bed on the ward"

    Tech said it wasn't possible. His red-cell count was well below the known threshold of life.

    Kerfluffle follows to ascertain how so and why so.

    Come to find out Dad had two full quarts more blood than a person his physique and body mass was expected to have. Concentration of blood Oxygen was super low. But he had enough TOTAL to make up for that, desite massive loss from a ruptured stomach ulcer.

    No Andean "Indian" ancestry that we are aware of, but the same sort of oversized, blood-rich lungs they have to cope with whole lifetimes spent at high altitudes.

    NOW we know there is a lot of that sort of variation in the general population. 1951, not so much. Until that incident and others like it.

    Fast forward to today.

    In the fullness of time, we can expect to unravel more such differentiators as to why COVID-19 hits the less-than-obvious the way it does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    "Small" meaning it has to hold an entire human - minimum - AND NOT drive the poor bugger insane off the back of claustrophobia?

    Tough-enough for professional divers to deal with. The "untrained"? Harder-yet!
    Might have to be in induced coma for med staff to be able to keep-up with more than one at a time?

    One wonders..... about liquid exchange to raise blood-Oxygen levels.

    Think artificial heart-lung machine technology, adapted?
    Yeah, some people might need happy meds inside small steel barrel.

    ECMO Extracorporeal membrane oxygenation - Wikipedia
    would take care of the blood oxygenation but I stink I read from somewhere that overpressure oxygen has added advantage of oxygenating the inflamed lung tissue.


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