What's new
What's new

Old Blanchard grinder questions.

gbent

Diamond
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Location
Kansas
I am working on an old Blanchard grinder, vintage 1940. On this model, the table rotates but does not reciprocate under the wheel head. There is no identification about model or serial number I have been able to find.

Which direction are the table and wheel head supposed to rotate? I can't find any markings.

The magnetic chuck seems quite weak. It has much less holding power than a typical permanent magnet surface grinder chuck. There is a tag on the machine stating the chuck is wired for 230 volt DC. There are 4 wires coming out from the table, numbered 1,2,3, and 4. 1 and 2 are a pair with 120 ohms resistance, and 3 and 4 are a pair with 160 ohms resistance. There is no conductivity between the pairs. The pairs are now wired in series, so each sees roughly 100 volts (the rectifier is putting out 200V DC). There is no provision for variable magnet power.

Does anyone know if the slip ring (I presume) connections are serviceable without pulling the table? Could it be that the original design had a switch to allow wiring the two magnet circuits in either parallel or series for variable holding power?

Any comments on operation of the machine would be appreciated as well.
 
I think your going to have to get a manual for your Blanchard. I have done extensive repairs to the Blanchard at the last shop I worked before retiring and I think you will have to lift the table to check the slip rings. I had our table off a few times and replaced the head bearings once. Our Blanchard had a moving table.
 
It can probably be identified by the table diameter.

Must be smaller than a #18 because AFAIK the table traverses on all of the 18's. A 30", 36", or 42" table in that vintage would be an 18. I think the next smaller size was called a #11, but not sure on that. Coulda been a model between the 11 and the 18.

Not familiar with the smaller ones, but the s/n on the 18's is stamped on a milled pad at the front of the machine, on the main casting, at about the level where your hands would be if standing with them at your side. Mine had a few coats of porch paint on it and required the scraper to expose the number.

I'd agree with Carl that the manual is invaluable for doing any work on one of these critters. Evidently they didn't change a lot over the years, so a manual covers a wide range of machines. The manual for mine was printed in the 60's while my grinder is a late 40's model. There was a change from radial ball and ball thrust bearings to tapered rollers sometime between the 40's and 60's, and my manual gives the serial # break for that change, and covers the head construction for both bearing styles. The manual only covers the 18's though, so no help there on the smaller ones.

There's probably a step around the OD of the chuck, which steps in about 1/4" off the outer radius of the chuck body. The depth of that step, measured from the top surface of the table down, is an indicator of remaining chuck life. The manual specifies the minimum depth. Going from memory, but I think on the 18's the depth is 1/2" when new and 1/4" when the chuck is considered too thin for further grinding.

Re the chuck control. IIRC the original one is covered in the Blanchard manual. Most likely made by Electromatic. Mine has a newer solid state chuck control, also made by Electromatic. I called them and they faxed me the diagrams and other pertinent info for the control on mine. Nice folks.

I'm thinking the old time chuck controls may have been problematic over the years. I say this because I've also got a Gallmeyer #65-C recip from the mid 50's which has also been retrofitted with a solid state chuck control. The grinder itself probably hasn't had the equivalent of a year's use on it in its entire life because Taylor Instrument only used it for sharpening blades for cutting the material for making blood pressure cuffs a couple times a month. Yet the chuck control has been replaced, which led me to assume they were either problematic or not economically sensible to repair as they aged.

My only contact with Blanchard, or whoever it is that services them now, was back when I first got the grinder. It had spun the thrust bearing, and the previous owner took it down for repair but bought a similar size Mattison in the meantime and decided to sell it. I needed a couple dimensions for the casting that carries the lower radial bearing and thrust bearing so I could make the proper repair, and they pulled a drawing and gave me those dimensions while I held the phone. Nice folks there too.
 
The chuck does not move at all???
Never seen that even on my 1930's #4 machine. In the 40's machine numbers were changed to represent standard wheel adapter flange size.
Some machines were available with two different chuck sizes. Chucks are interchangeable inside a model number.
Very old machines used a flat belt drive on the downfeed with flat belt pulleys hanging off the right side of the machine.

The chuck does not "reciprocate" on a Blanchard, out to load, in while grinding, One of the reasons that no matter how bad the ways are worn the machine will still hold tenths.

Chuck rotates CCW, wheel rotates CW ( when viewed from top).
Parts enter front of wheel.

Chucks can be changed for for 110 or 220 Volts DC by connections at slip ring underneath. Yes, they are not as strong as a chick on a regular surface grinder.

The chuck pulls straight up and out (with the aid of an engine hoist or fork lift). Very heavy and will bind if not pulled straight, mine always cock on the way out and need the help of a couple of pry bars to "wiggle" it on the way up. Be very careful here if you want to keep all your fingers, This a big chuck on steel.:eek:
This will allow you to check the brushes and slip ring, and chuck ways
Brushes and slip ring need to be cleaned every 4-5 years of continuous use. Brushes last a very long time.

Very old Blanchards used tube rectifiers, 40's machines used seleniums and a motorized "neutralfier" mounted on the back. The spider arm in this device needs to have it's contacts cleaned periodically. Very common to see older machines "refitted" with a solid state bridge in place of the old rectifiers. Remove chuck and check DC voltage at brush tips. I have seen the wiring from the rectifier to the brushes "go bad".

The info that there are four wires going from the chuck to the electrics has me puzzled, mine have four wires to the ring, two wires leaving the chuck brush assembly. Mine are just "little" machines, maybe the big ones are different.
Machine number on front and chuck/wheel size or a picture would be helpful.
Bob
 
The table turns counter clockwise and the grinding wheel turns clockwise.

To service the brushes and collector ring you do have to pull the magnetic chuck but this is very easy, eyebolts or a large magnet will be enough to pull the chuck off and you will then see teh ways, brushes and collector ring.

On may mattison rotaries and our blanchards I have only seen 2 wires going to the chuck. Normally they are labeled C1 and C2.

For a manual figure out what size machine you have, somewhere on the front it should be marked or stamped. Then go to ebay and get a manual, there are always some for sale.

Right now a pretty big blanchard rebuilder is F.P. Miller. For further assistance I would talk with them. But any electrical person should be able to figure out the wiring on your chuck.

Your chuck should be powerful enought that is you put a 2x2x2 block on the table you should beabel be able to move it.

For chuck specific questions call Magnalock in Rockford.

I have not seen a blanchard where the carriage does not move in and out. Are you sure there is jut a motor not working or if it is a small 16" or 20" machine there should be a handle which moves the carriabe in and out.
 
The machine has a 30" chuck with a 18" center hole. It has a solid 18" grinding wheel. The machine was probably made in 1940, as the maintenance tag on the motor was first stamped for greasing in 1941.

The table drive motor has a v-belt drive to the table speed gearbox. It appears there was once a power raise for the wheelhead. The power raise has flat belt pulleys. The flat belt is missing. The power downfeed does work, it is a ratchet off the od of the wheelhead elevating wheel.

I can't find any machined boss with any numbers. Could it be hidden under the switches at the operators station?

Thanks for the assistance.
 

Attachments

  • P1010004.jpg
    P1010004.jpg
    90 KB · Views: 8,387
  • P1010006.jpg
    P1010006.jpg
    96.6 KB · Views: 11,978
gbent-what you have is an automatic 16-A blanchard. This style machine was used for the production of small parts, say washers or somthing of the like. These were supplied with up to 5 grinding wheel heads, obviously as the number of heads increased so did the table size.

Mattison made many of these style machine as well. They were as well very common for connecting rods.

To be honest unless you plan on doing 1,000 of washers or small production parts this machine may be pretty useless to you.

What did this syle of machine in for mattison is when the car manufactures went to different thickness of the connecting rods for the crank end and the piston end.

I believe very few were build with only 1 head, most common were 2-3 heads.

With cnc machining and turning and the ability to mass produce small parts this as well has made this style machine useless.

I have no idea if it is possible to put a 30" solid magnetic chuck on this machine??? The magnetic chuck I am thinking now was designed to be weak. As the table turned the operator would load and then unload, there would have been some kind of fixturing ring to keep the parts from sliding off as the went under the wheel. This was obviously all done with the magnet on. I know on some of the mattison machines there was a dead area on the magnet for the load/unload position.

This type of machine was designed for minimal stock removal. If you want more pictures or info let me know.
 
I have the machine rough leveled setting on pads where the hold down holes are located. The head is out of parallel with the table in both directions. Can someone explain how the adjuster bolts on the head are supposed to work?

The two sets of windings for the chuck I simply wired in parallel rather than series. The chuck seems to have acceptable power now.

As far as being nearly worthless, that is why I have it. If it can't earn its keep, I won't be out much turning it into broken cast.
 
Blanchard No. 18 question

I think your going to have to get a manual for your Blanchard. I have done extensive repairs to the Blanchard at the last shop I worked before retiring and I think you will have to lift the table to check the slip rings. I had our table off a few times and replaced the head bearings once. Our Blanchard had a moving table.

After seeing that you have worked on Blanchard grinders for sometime I have a question for you: Our Blanchard 18 has a table traverse that is stuck completely in toward the grinding head. I'm assuming that the rack gear has over traveled and needs to be manually returned. The hand lever is also stuck over because of this. Because of this we can't move the table out for loading and unloading.

Have you ever had such a problem? And, if so, how did you rectify it?

IMG_2457.jpgIMG_2458 (1).jpgIMG_2457.jpgIMG_2458 (1).jpg
 
After seeing that you have worked on Blanchard grinders for sometime I have a question for you: Our Blanchard 18 has a table traverse that is stuck completely in toward the grinding head. I'm assuming that the rack gear has over traveled and needs to be manually returned. The hand lever is also stuck over because of this. Because of this we can't move the table out for loading and unloading.

Have you ever had such a problem? And, if so, how did you rectify it?

View attachment 269271View attachment 269272View attachment 269271View attachment 269272

Seams like you could use just about any way you desired to move the table back except for the crank. I would probably look around for a long piece of wood. Maybe a 4x4 or 2x4 and use as prybar between table and casting?
 
Hi,

Im new here. I registered because it seems there a vast amount of old timers here that know these machines inside and out :)

I just managed to lay my hand on a 1929 no 10, serial 1801. It has a 16’ chuck and 10 or 11’ grinding wheel. im a bit stumped by the level of engineering in this for being designed early 20’ies.. very cool

I got the machine in a bad condition as most grease and oil solified. What also didnt help is that someone not very clever drilled holes in the chuck so the water could just run into the chuck bearing. Now after severe cleaning and re oiling and greasing it works again.

What I cannot find though is a simple way to grease the vertical slides for the motor/head. If you drive it to max height there are the cross milling paths visible that are also present on the table slides. But I see nowhere ports where grease could be forced into them. Because of the rest of the machine has clever and easy to acces grease and oiling ports I can not imagine it would require to lift the whole head of the machine just to grease the slides?
 
Seams like you could use just about any way you desired to move the table back except for the crank. I would probably look around for a long piece of wood. Maybe a 4x4 or 2x4 and use as prybar between table and casting?

I know this is old....

You may need to unhook the link between the table lever and the linkage in order to force the table backwards onto the rack.
 
..
I just managed to lay my hand on a 1929 no 10, serial 1801. It has a 16’ chuck and 10 or 11’ grinding wheel. im a bit stumped by the level of engineering in this for being designed early 20’ies.. very cool
Pictures please.
On my Blanchard of this age we drilled four holes in the chuck just out the ridge of the magnet surface. These to hold the "grinding ring" in place when doing carbide and put set screws in them when grinding steel with no ring.
I think mine had grease fittings on the top and bottom of the head assembly cross drilled to the ways but that a long time ago so memory perhaps not correct and the machine heavily modified by the Ford motor company before I owned it.

This would be and external pick flat belt feed machine?
Bob
 
1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

5.jpg


This is first test piece grindet. Without forced coolant and maybe stone needs to be dressed

test.jpg
 
So there was an auction nearby and a 20-11 came up. I bought it for less then the metal price. Its looks in good shape but it will only come end of the week. Now the bad news is I dont have room to keep 2 of these machines so I will have to separate from my 1929 no 1801. Ive used it occasionally the past 3 years and adjusted the head for a nice cross pattern and flattness ~ 0.01mm on a 16’ surface. If someone knows anyone having some love for this awesome 1920’ies machine. Its located in Belgium and wires for 3x400v. Fully operational
 

Attachments

  • IMG_6036.jpeg
    IMG_6036.jpeg
    1.8 MB · Views: 9
  • IMG_6035.jpeg
    IMG_6035.jpeg
    2.1 MB · Views: 9
  • IMG_5985.jpeg
    IMG_5985.jpeg
    1.8 MB · Views: 9
  • 345A47AD-155B-443F-BA56-E284F9E363F1.jpeg
    345A47AD-155B-443F-BA56-E284F9E363F1.jpeg
    1.6 MB · Views: 9








 
Back
Top