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Old School chisel work in iron

Bill D

Diamond
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
Modesto, CA USA
I have never really done any work with a chisel in iron or any other metal. I understand the concept of scraping precision surfaces. My question is before machine tools where iron workers, clock makers etc, supposed to shape metal with hammer and chisel while cold. Could you cut a keyway with a chisel, cut gear teeth etc. Similar to a shaper(which we are not allowed to discuss here) but hand power for each stroke. Similar to wood working?
I have even done simple forging with hot iron and a chisel to split it into a fork etc. Not really cutting it but pushing it into a new shape with no loss of material.
Bill D
 
I have never really done any work with a chisel in iron or any other metal. I understand the concept of scraping precision surfaces. My question is before machine tools where iron workers, clock makers etc, supposed to shape metal with hammer and chisel while cold. Could you cut a keyway with a chisel, cut gear teeth etc. Similar to a shaper(which we are not allowed to discuss here) but hand power for each stroke. Similar to wood working?
I have even done simple forging with hot iron and a chisel to split it into a fork etc. Not really cutting it but pushing it into a new shape with no loss of material.
Bill D
Good question. I don't have a good answer, I CAN tell you that metal cutting files "back in the day" were made by hand, one tooth at a time, with a chisel. I'll post a couple links to YouTube videos on the subject.

Also, if you look at engravers (the tool, not person), they're generally a small, sharp chisel.

Theres another tool (I think it's called a "scarper"). It's sorta chisel-like and it pushed and rocked side to side at the same time and cuts metal. Leaves an interesting pattern behind. Like a really fine zigzag.

I recommend watching "Clickspring" on YouTube. That dude does some really impressive work making clocks and related tools and that sorta thing. He made a video where he took mild steel, cut file teeth, case hardened and heat treated, a whole set of files and actually uses them in his work.


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Heres the video where Clickspring makes those files. https://youtu.be/SOw9WqMOHjA

I'll try to find the one showing the "scarper" he used with a trammel to cut semi-circles in brass plate.

https://youtu.be/wtjvWU0Ij-c SCORPER. Not scarper... I also seem to've mixed it up with another old school tool. I'll try to find that one, too.

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I've done both. Splines as well. But with a sort of "double caveat".

- Whilst still part of the TRAINING, that era, it was already frowned-on in industry as a massive waster of expensive labour, even when labour was cheap.

One was meant to use the appropriate machine-tool, whether the chisel was within your skillset or never..

- each case was a repair where I had no other good options.

Seriously tedious pain in the arse if ever was, but the tools are tiny so yah JF carry them when out in the field.

Pretty sure you could find written instructions - WITH line-art illustration - on cutting a keyway. Damned if it ever went as clean, neat, and easy as shown though!

Steel had gotten aholt of the wurld. No more easy-peasy wrought-Iron or brass!

:(
I've done a lot of chisel work in steel and iron - fortunately, most of it is hot work at an anvil.

Having a forge is sorta like having a welder. Hard to imagine getting along without it.



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Toss the "cold chisel" back in the truck bed, there are more special purpose chisels for the typical things like cutting keyways, etc.

For that, you want a "cape" chisel. It has back relief so it can be guided, and makes the pain in the ass job a little better. It's still a pain in the ass, but it's not a f***ing impossible pain in the ass.
 
That's the proper use, actually.

"Cold chisel" is just a blue collar word for "exponential aggravation"

Only thing I ever worked cold that compared with hot Iron was soft solid Copper.

Back before it cost the very Earth, of course.

:(
It's crazy the transformation steel goes through when it's hot.

Easier than working room temp 6061.

The "hot cut" that I usually use - a big chisel that goes in the hardie hole in the anvil - is dead soft mild steel. I sharpen it every once in a a while. I can cut 2" bar on it with a 10 pound sledge and it'll be just as good as when I sharpened it. Only time it needs to be ground is when I hit it with a hammer. Even then, it doesnt really affect the performance much. Faster than putting stock in a bandsaw, too.

Prolly less energy efficient, considering the electricity to run the forge blower and all that... then again, in the winter, that forge is all the heat I need. The ceiling joists get up to about 130 or 140 (Degrees Freedom, not C).

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First year apprentice exercise where I did it: given a cast iron block 6" x 4" about 2" thick .. lower the top surface 1/8" by hammer & cold chisel, flat as you could .. then file it 'as flat as you could' .. then scrape it as flat as poss, blued up & checked on the shop surface plate. Good for the soul. Oh yes, the next intake would repeat the process as you had done, until the block was too thin, when a new one would go into the cycle.
 
I worked in some brick works and we chisseled off bolt regulary
Faster as a blow torch If you could reach it with the chissel at least
If we could get in the right position we smashed the bolt head or nut off with a 2kg hammer
Went oke with one blow up to M10
Bolts needed to be tightend properly
Also did some repairwork on site with a chissel Keyways mainly Also in shafts
It has its place

peter
 
I did an exercise once, cutting a woodruff key slot by hand, with the correct chisel is was suprisingly easy though slow, the chisel spent quite a bit of time being reground, you can sink dies with chisels ( they did) cut plate to size, ( I often do) use the vice and hammer and chisel, square out holes, it’s an underrated technique, it’s what they had, and if the thing that needs work weighs 100 tons it’s a valid option,
Mark
 
Absolutely a skilled "mechanic" (the old term for such workers) can do these things with hand tools.

Several of my older texts show the techniques for cutting keyways, etc. using hammer and chisel. The old timers had far more specific purpose chisels than most today.
 
I was taught as a toolmakers apprentice to use chisels for metal removal. It is an old skill. I had to make a set of V-blocks using only hand tools. Hacksaw to rough shape, then chisels, followed by files and abrasive paper. The old toolmakers had all sorts of chisels in there boxes, some made by them. Scraping is another old skill that is being lost.
 
Right around the year 2000, I saw a demo by an american blacksmith named Ward Grossman. He was an expert in a german cold chisel technique called "Eisenhowering". And he made it look pretty easy. He did, however, have biceps like Popeye. He had spent a long time in England, talking his way into musuem storage rooms, to personally inspect early english and german swords, and reverse engineered the process- I saw him cold chiselling real wrought iron, mild steel and stainless steel (304) and he did amazing things. His trick seemed to be sharp chisels, and patience. Not much about him online, and my guess is he passed away. He was from Wyoming, as I recall.
NRBA Conference  Fall 2003 at Steve Fontanini
anvilfire NEWS Vol. 4 p. 7
 
LOL! I'm easily 20 years into talking myself out of a Trenton, Hay-Budden.. or hard as they are to find not worn and abused all to flinders, even a brand-new Peddinghaus.

Since Forged in Fire aired and especially since Wuhan Flu, anvils are stupidly expensive. A good, new, US made, 140 pound steel anvil is $10 a pound.

The Steele Anvil (140 LB) – Alec Steele Co.

I've thought about buying one of those cast iron "anvil shaped objects" from Harbor Freight and padding the face out with hardfacing rods, just to see if it'd make a decent anvil.

The face on my anvil is forge welded on steel plate - not sure what it's hardened to, but I've never left a mark on it. Got some hardfacing rods from a friend an I used those to fix a couple dents and edge chips In it (how the hell did someone do that?? I've smacked it with a 10lb sledge and it didnt do anything). The hardface repairs have been holding up great for a couple years.

Only problem with the rods I used is they're a HUGE pain to grind.

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Since Forged in Fire aired and especially since Wuhan Flu, anvils are stupidly expensive. A good, new, US made, 140 pound steel anvil is $10 a pound.

The Steele Anvil (140 LB) – Alec Steele Co.

I've thought about buying one of those cast iron "anvil shaped objects" from Harbor Freight and padding the face out with hardfacing rods, just to see if it'd make a decent anvil.

The face on my anvil is forge welded on steel plate - not sure what it's hardened to, but I've never left a mark on it. Got some hardfacing rods from a friend an I used those to fix a couple dents and edge chips In it (how the hell did someone do that?? I've smacked it with a 10lb sledge and it didnt do anything). The hardface repairs have been holding up great for a couple years.

Only problem with the rods I used is they're a HUGE pain to grind.

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That is good idea on hardfacing the cheap base anvil. I used hardfacing rod on some mild steel to make flat dies for one of my power hammers (2B Nazel) and they have been fine for over 10 yrs. I primarily use them to hold other tooling. The hardfacing I used was for impact and abrasion, it sounds like yours is more abrasion and less impact. I might use 3 layers of that stuff you have and 2 more layers of something with more impact protection on top.
The abrasion resistant hardfacing does not like be abraded, even with a grinding wheel. The impact resistant stuff grinds fine and it may work harden IIRC.
 
That is good idea on hardfacing the cheap base anvil. I used hardfacing rod on some mild steel to make flat dies for one of my power hammers (2B Nazel) and they have been fine for over 10 yrs. I primarily use them to hold other tooling. The hardfacing I used was for impact and abrasion, it sounds like yours is more abrasion and less impact. I might use 3 layers of that stuff you have and 2 more layers of something with more impact protection on top.
The abrasion resistant hardfacing does not like be abraded, even with a grinding wheel. The impact resistant stuff grinds fine and it may work harden IIRC.
I forgot what the rod was. Think it was "something Carbide something" or maybe "something something Carbide". Pretty sure it was either Hobart or Firepower.

I was just given a big handful of them and went to town the the welder. Did my best to preheat it and maintain post heat and all that. 75% of the time I'd get these tiny little stress cracks in the weld... WTF. Turns out it's some super hard alloy and is SUPPOSED to fracture as it cools... to "relieve stress"... since I already spent the time to get the anvil hot, I just went ahead and welded it.

Like I said in my last post. It's held up fine for a few years now.

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Steven Dodd Hughes covers hand chiseling gun steel in his book- Double guns and Custom gunsmithing. He shows how add an arcaded fence to a fine gun.

He uses chisels 1/8” and 1/4” wide. Hughes recommended grind is like a cold chisel but with one face ground flat and one curved. The curved face forms a chip without digging in.
 








 
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