OT - Anyone know how to remove a idler gear hub on a perkins engine? (pics included)

Randalthor · Dec 27, 2019

Sorry for the OT post, but I can't figure out how to remove the hub. The only instructions in the shop manual are, "Remove the idler gear hub."

I need to get the hub off before I can remove the timing cover. I have to remove the timing cover because I have a long frozen bolt in the block which goes through the timing cover. I have to get close to the block before I can do anything with the bolt. The bolt is too long to drill right now. I've also tried heat, but the bolt is too long.

The gear and hub are attached to the block with 3 bolts. The bolts go through a spacer, then into the hub. The gear has a bushing and runs around on the hub. I obviously don't want to bugger the surface of the hub, but I can't figure out how to remove it.

The hub has an oil hole on top and a hole in the front. Here are some pics. The second pic is the hub.

john.k · Dec 27, 2019

The hub is a light interference fit in the block.If its OK ,why remove it ?I have removed them ,but only for replacement....Like all Perkins stuff ,they cost diddly,so just replace it with a new one ....Now IIRC,the hub locates the cover ,but doesn not retain it...So ,no need to remove the hub.

Randalthor · Dec 27, 2019

Thanks for the reply.

I thought it might be easier to get the timing case off with the hub removed. The frozen bolt goes through the timing case and doesn't allow the timing case to wiggle at all. The case is unbolted from the sump, but the frozen bolt, the sump gasket and the hub won't allow any movement to break the case free.

Re: Price

Perkins may be cheap down under, but I don't think they are here, although I'll admit I've only bought Perkins parts from my tractor dealer (Massey Ferguson).

For example, I thought I might try to replace the fan housing bearing while I had front of the engine apart. The tractor parts book says the bearing is not serviceable and requires the small fan housing to be replaced, just to replace the bearing.

The housing and bearing are $500.

One of the bolts which retains the crankshaft pulley was over torqued when it was installed. The threads on the bolt are galled, so I need to replace it. It's a bolt with a 12 point head, probably 10mm by maybe 35mm long. Nothing fancy. Agco (i.e. Massey) wants a mere $9.50 for that little bolt.

Maybe Perkins is cheaper if I can find a dealer. There's not a Perkins dealer in Kansas or Missouri listed on their "Dealer Locator".

The closest Dealer Perkins lists on their Locator is some Hardware store/rental agency down in Fort Smith AR. I wouldn't necessarily trust an equipment rental place to know a lot about Perkins engines, so I probably won't be calling them.

Bill D · Dec 27, 2019

Sounds to me that if you remove it them you will have to buy or make a new gasket. You are having a hard time time finding reasonable priced parts so it is something to consider.
Bil lD

howieranger · Dec 27, 2019

In terms of parts rememberer that Perkins is part of CAT and the difference between a Cat branded and a Perkins branded engine is often only the color. So a CAT dealer may have the parts you need in their system. Whether they are cheaper than your current source is a different question.

Limy Sami · Dec 27, 2019

For the OT's info perkins engine parts usa - Google Search

Punt around because MF will screw you trice over on parts prices.

Randalthor · Dec 27, 2019

Thanks for the advice. Especially appreciate John K. informing me the idler gear hub is a light interference fit. I used that info to place some shallow bolts in the bolt holes of the hub and turned them with a screwdriver to remove it.

It turns out the timing cover was stuck because the frozen bolt was stuck in it (as well as in the block). After removing the hub, I welded another nut on the the frozen bolt (for the second time). I heated it almost to the melting point repeatedly. Then let it cool and heated the aluminum case surrounding the bolt with a torch. The bolt squeaked out.

Here's a pic of the bugger off the block finally.

It does seem MF screws customers over 3X for their parts. Thanks for the suggestions on Cat and other sources.

If anyone has any other suggestions on Perkins parts, please let me know.

Limy Sami · Dec 27, 2019

Which Perkins engine is it? and what's it in?

Randalthor · Dec 27, 2019

Its in a 4x4 Massey chore tractor. It's a 1004 series engine. The serial number is aj31353u072162g.

Limy Sami · Dec 27, 2019

Fid you know about this? International Landing

Looks like you can buy direct from Perkins online.

john.k · Dec 27, 2019

I grew up with Perks ,even now everything I have is Perk powered ,except the Harley....yeah,perky parts aint cheap from perk,I get all mine from Bepco.....not genuine ,but I have used Bepco stuff since the 60s......There is a trick with the Phasers too,some end users had special arrangements of the timing gears for hydraulic pump drives,and the parts can no longer be bought (JCB for instance).

Limy Sami · Dec 27, 2019

I agree Bepco stuff's good

And why isn't your Harley Perkins powered?

gbent · Dec 27, 2019

Because Perkins don't leak enough oil. The chain might get dry. A diesel contemporary to the Harley would be a 2-53.

john.k · Dec 27, 2019

There is a good story about Perks......a group of Chinese came to Peterborough to talk about a partnership .....Cat in US said to "blow them off".....So the group was shown around by a junior salesman ,who gave them bundles of sales handouts at the end of the tour,and let them have some parts from a scrapbin out the back......Six weeks later the first Chinese Perk left the factory ,and Perkins have been trying to stop them ever since.

EmGo · Dec 27, 2019

john.k said:
.....Six weeks later the first Chinese Perk left the factory ,and Perkins have been trying to stop them ever since.

Have you got a Gardiner factory down there I can send some people to visit ?

ewlsey · Dec 27, 2019

If you think Massey Ferguson is gouging you on parts you might want to be sitting down at the Cat dealership...

I've worked on several Perkins engines in MF tractors and other equipment. They seem to be reliable, but kind a pain to work on. Fine thread fasteners everywhere, or even custom ultra fine thread. That means replacement hardware is almost always special order.

I'm not so keen on the press in dry cylinder liners, but those also seem to work. The CAV/Lucas injection seems to work well.

They made a V8 engine used in some larger cab tractors. That has to be one of the most miserable engines ever built...

john.k · Dec 27, 2019

No need EG.....they can visit the Gardner factory proper in Patricroft ,and even live there if they want too,cause its all apartments now...Plenty of Gardner memorabilia on flea bay ,too.

Street · Dec 27, 2019

There are still a few Gardners earning their keep as Gensets on trawlers so they are around.

The trawler owners like them as they log some incredible running hours

Haven't seen any as a main propulsion when i was there. mostly CAT or Cummins.

john.k · Dec 27, 2019

I always wanted a 72 ft WW2 harbour launch with two 8L3 s in it .....when I finally found one for sale it was the US version with two 6/71 Greys...The owner said the wow-wow-wow noise of two GMs was driving everyone mad.

Randalthor · Dec 28, 2019

Thanks for the suggestions on sourcing parts. Looks like Bepco and Perkins online have some of the parts I need.

OT - Anyone know how to remove a idler gear hub on a perkins engine? (pics included)

Cast Iron

Diamond

Cast Iron

Diamond

Aluminum

Diamond

Cast Iron

Diamond

Cast Iron

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Cast Iron

Similar threads