I just spent an hour watching this, one of the best tours I've ever seen. Makes you glad a company like this is keeping american iron still productive.Bourn & Koch Factory Tour: Iconic American Manufacturing! - YouTube
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Largest Manufacturing Technology Community on the Web
Stay Connected:
OT Bourn & Koch
- Thread starter ronf
- Start date
- Replies 45
- Views 5,581
EmGo
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
Yeah, unless you want to buy something from them. Or even worse, you actually do buy something from them. If you think a print for a washer is worth $500, this is your kinda place !
"Leadership", you gotta be shittin' me ....
MCritchley
Stainless
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2007
- Location
- Brooklyn WI
I don’t think they are getting rich off of selling washer drawings. How much does it cost them to find that drawing in the blueprint library nothing is free. That’s what it costs to have the service there for you.
Leadership keeps the place open and good on them. How many companies offer outsiders in and let civilians take a scraping class?
EmGo
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
Turret drive on Eagles is crossed-axis helical. Changing to wormgear would make a big improvement. One can either disassemble the turret and have it apart for two weeks while you reverse engineer and make replacements, or work from prints and get the changeover done in one day. Which choice is smarter ?Make the washer yourself then?
If you know the dims and spec....
American had everything very nicely organized. Finding the right print would take even a $15/hr dummy about fifteen minutes. Fellows did that for me a few times for free. American had no-charge phone help as well. Also Sundstrand. Before we became a "service economy" stuff like this was common. It worked well for over a hundred years in many cases.
I don't see this crap of paying $500 for something that costs $7.50 as being an improvement.
In 2021....it's amazing anyone is even taking time to run a business like that. Just look around that building...it takes a LOT of money to keep that place open and pay the employees. And taxes. And insurance. Every single day. I'll bet 45 cents of every dollar goes to feed the millions of stupid democrat programs. Somewhere, some wetback is getting a new cellphone thanks to that place.
The alternate would be for all those records to have been shitcanned, left in the rain in cardboardboxes, or have mice eating them.
You need a drawing made in 1930? The drawing cost is $25. Plus $3 per year storage for the past 92 years. That's another $276. Who will store anything for $3/year?
The alternate would be for all those records to have been shitcanned, left in the rain in cardboardboxes, or have mice eating them.
You need a drawing made in 1930? The drawing cost is $25. Plus $3 per year storage for the past 92 years. That's another $276. Who will store anything for $3/year?
cool video, thanks.
...and no way can you find that obscure print in 5 minutes.
B&K bill it out at T&M as they should.
Richard King
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2005
- Location
- Cottage Grove, MN 55016
I've taught a hand full of scraping classes at Bourn and Koch and it was a great experience. They rebuild old machines and produce new Richard King Hand-Scraping Class in March at Bourn & Koch
PM members Cash Masters is in one of these picture, he took the class as did, Matt C too. Jim Thiele, Over the years many Practical Machinist members and contribute in this forum took classes at B&K
Bourn & Koch Richard King Scraping Class - YouTube
John Saunders who is also a PM member (NYC CNC) who toured B&K is a famous You Tuber took a Keith Rucker class I did there years back and he has hosted a hand-full of classes in his Ohio shop. In the last pic is Lucky 7 (Stan White who has attended 2 of my classes) Shane Carr (Collector) who also has had 2 classes. We tour B&K and that 2nd floor library. Collector went up and they gave him copies of his Rockford Shapers that were over 50 years old.
Hand Scraping Class - 8/19 - 8/23 - at Bourn & Koch, Inc. Sign Up Today!
PM members Cash Masters is in one of these picture, he took the class as did, Matt C too. Jim Thiele, Over the years many Practical Machinist members and contribute in this forum took classes at B&K
Bourn & Koch Richard King Scraping Class - YouTube
John Saunders who is also a PM member (NYC CNC) who toured B&K is a famous You Tuber took a Keith Rucker class I did there years back and he has hosted a hand-full of classes in his Ohio shop. In the last pic is Lucky 7 (Stan White who has attended 2 of my classes) Shane Carr (Collector) who also has had 2 classes. We tour B&K and that 2nd floor library. Collector went up and they gave him copies of his Rockford Shapers that were over 50 years old.
Hand Scraping Class - 8/19 - 8/23 - at Bourn & Koch, Inc. Sign Up Today!
Last edited:
Richard King
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2005
- Location
- Cottage Grove, MN 55016
I re did the ways on a Blanchard Grinder (B&K now owns s Blanchard) for MN Grinding a few years ago. It needed a new gib and they paid $600.00 for it. I said why didn't you make it? The foreman said by the time they ordered the material, stopped the machinist who was making parts for a customer, set up the gib job and made it the costs would be double that. Plus they would have an exact copy of the original part.
EmGo
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
I see you've never had an American Tool print. They are organized. I said 15 minutes but to be honest I don't know how long it took, came in the mail but pretty sure Kevin didn't spend hours wandering around the plant looking, he'd have got in trouble for that. I was pretty good phone friends with the tech support, who actually knew what they were doing. In fact they said they'd run it by their boss if it worked better. I sold the lathe and got a different (bigger) one before that could happen. Used to have kind of a fetish with mass and horsepower.
That's why the US will never again be competitive in the world. So go suck up to Wall Street fraudsters because that's all you've got and all you're ever going to have with this kind of thinking. $600 for a gib, s-t-u-p-i-d.
There's little doubt the USA has seen a tremendous decline in expertise and the basic willingness to get one's hands dirty. This is just a symptom of that. B&K is a vestige of days gone past...I don't think anyone sees them as anything other. A seat of the lifeboat has no value when the cruise starts, but the price goes up dramatically once the ship is taking on water.
Brian@VersaMil
Stainless
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2001
- Location
- Gaston, Oregon USA
Six hundred dollars for a gib- is NOT stupid. These days when a burger and fries cost twenty bucks at a restaurant, made by workers with virtually no skills, using a minimum amount of expensive equipment- six hundred for a gib is about right. Maybe for an old duffer in a shop who thinks making repair parts at five bucks an hour, is hitting it out of the park- six hundred dollars might sound outlandish. A tapered gib as a one off part, to get it right, to get it flat, doesn't happen in five minutes.
EmGo
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
Sorry Brian but I've owned a shop, you're not talking to someone who got his machining knowledge from reading webpages ... and what you just demonstrated is why you guys will never again be competitive with the rest of the world.
A $600 gib is stupid. But the people who try to justify that are even stupider.
Yeah but you are someone who will try to bullshit and insult perceived competence over a notable lack of understanding and experience in an area tho EG. You ever made a gib? Scraped and aligned a collection of surfaces to a number? Maybe you have, maybe you're gods gift. Or maybe you dont know jack and just wana get the old 'me great yawl idiots' with a side order of 'merica sucks' show going.
Heck, it DOES suck.
Thing of it is, just about everywhere else sucks at least as bad, or in a lot of cases, a great deal worse.
adammil1
Titanium
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2001
- Location
- New Haven, CT
Maybe in some ways Emmanuel has a point.
I recently started browsing Aliexpress out of curiosity but here's his frame of reference for what it's worth. https://m.aliexpress.com/item/10050...gywjlfycaa7a17de513fe361809e3e81d75b97&gclid=
How the heck can the Chinese make a 8" 3Jaw chuck and then have it drop shipped to my house for $100 all the way from China. I don't even think I could ship one to the West Coast for less than $50.
How are these guys making stuff so cheap? Even if it's cheap junk you still have casting, machining, finish grind etc... on that thing.
By the way the gib in question how big was it? I was thinking large based on the machinery in question. I am curious what the material costs would be here vs China.
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
I recently started browsing Aliexpress out of curiosity but here's his frame of reference for what it's worth. https://m.aliexpress.com/item/10050...gywjlfycaa7a17de513fe361809e3e81d75b97&gclid=
How the heck can the Chinese make a 8" 3Jaw chuck and then have it drop shipped to my house for $100 all the way from China. I don't even think I could ship one to the West Coast for less than $50.
How are these guys making stuff so cheap? Even if it's cheap junk you still have casting, machining, finish grind etc... on that thing.
By the way the gib in question how big was it? I was thinking large based on the machinery in question. I am curious what the material costs would be here vs China.
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
There are a lot of strange things in this world...as for the Chinese chuck....the biggest factor is they are operating with almost zero regulation. No safety police. No medical coverage. No dental plan. No 401K matching. No 401K anything. Near-free labor. And their materials similarly are made with no regulation, no emissions, no waste disposal fees, no specs. No nothing.
When you consider all the non-essentials, the amazing thing is that a chuck made in the USA will ONLY cost $5,000.
When you consider all the non-essentials, the amazing thing is that a chuck made in the USA will ONLY cost $5,000.
Mebfab
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2003
- Location
- Mebane North Carolina USA
Maybe, just maybe, the Chinese are running with lower profit margins, modern equipment, far better infrastructure, tons of engineers (vs surplus of lawyers), huge economy of scale (make a lot of those chucks), minimal tolerances, cheaper land,
Vs the US. I saw several machine builders. Wysong, Bridgeport, Nelson, Newman Whitney. And some(pretty muchall) of these where pretty run down. Most of Nelson and Newman went to the crusher.
Mazak in Kentucky was state of the art. The ones above are gone. MeanWhile China builds a middle class and builds out infrastructure.
Also, I am surprised that washer isn't more then $600. Costs a fortune to deal with the 700 calls a day from backyard hobby Bob asking about finding a cheaper #9 collet or a 1/2" end mill for under $4 delivered. They Sent me instructions and weights for moving radial drills and a planer at no charge.
Vs the US. I saw several machine builders. Wysong, Bridgeport, Nelson, Newman Whitney. And some(pretty muchall) of these where pretty run down. Most of Nelson and Newman went to the crusher.
Mazak in Kentucky was state of the art. The ones above are gone. MeanWhile China builds a middle class and builds out infrastructure.
Also, I am surprised that washer isn't more then $600. Costs a fortune to deal with the 700 calls a day from backyard hobby Bob asking about finding a cheaper #9 collet or a 1/2" end mill for under $4 delivered. They Sent me instructions and weights for moving radial drills and a planer at no charge.
Richard King
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2005
- Location
- Cottage Grove, MN 55016
The Saddle has a rectangular gib that bolts onto the side of saddle. Page 94 - Plate 13 Part # 17562.
If I was rebuilding "my" machine, I would have made it. The machine belonged to a job shop who didn't have time to screw with it. I get it. Same goes for B&K. they had to make it from scratch. Shop rate was probably $100.00 per hour and they had to mark it up. Had to have had 4 hour in it plus make a profit. If you look at it that way, it was a deal. Merry Christmas all.
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/4017/24851.pdf
If I was rebuilding "my" machine, I would have made it. The machine belonged to a job shop who didn't have time to screw with it. I get it. Same goes for B&K. they had to make it from scratch. Shop rate was probably $100.00 per hour and they had to mark it up. Had to have had 4 hour in it plus make a profit. If you look at it that way, it was a deal. Merry Christmas all.
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/4017/24851.pdf
Similar threads
