OT can you ID this car from a 1913 family photo?

metalmagpie · Nov 16, 2020

My wife is working on a book about her father's family. In it is this picture:

She carefully lists the names of all the people but of course I wanted to know about the car! As I said, the photo is from 1913 so the car could be a 1913 or 1912 or so. The shape of the fenders is distinctive and differentiates it from other cars of that era. I believe the ball handled lever outside the (RH) driver's door was the parking brake.

Anyway, I'm out of my league here. Can you ID this car or suggest a different forum I can post my question in?

metalmagpie

johnoder · Nov 16, 2020

I'd guess RAMBLER (way before Nash had one named that)

Mr. Jeffery I think was the main man - earlier made RAMBLER bicycles

This could be wildly wrong, since there were about 2500 distinct makes by then

Pathogen · Nov 16, 2020

Model T Ford

The big round ball is the horn bulb you squeeze to sound the horn.

The acetylene generator is mounted to the running board. For the lights.

The hub caps are just plain with a Ford script on them, screw on to the hub and contain the grease for the wheel bearings.

Ears up to start! meaning the throttle lever up, spark advance lever up, no gas pedal

JohnEvans · Nov 16, 2020

Not a Model T ,2 springs on front axle . T only used one crosswise. Also all US made T's were left hand drive.

thermite · Nov 16, 2020

johnoder said:
I'd guess RAMBLER (way before Nash had one named that)

Mr. Jeffery I think was the main man - earlier made RAMBLER bicycles

Seconded. Had a plastic model of one as a kid.

Definitely NOT a Ford "T".

Learnt to drive on a 1923 "T"... no body. Bare chassis & firewall/fuel tank/ignition, etc.

Wooden soda-pop-crate for a seat!

CarbideBob · Nov 16, 2020

Seems close to this which is a 1912 Premier.
Rear fender different this pic but this did change from flat to round over models and time.
Other things wrong in the pic also for this to be a match but back then there were no "standard" productions models.
Along with fender shape note no driver door.
Carrying the spare in this location was not common.

Not a T and I do not see Rambler as the fenders are flat and beaded edge.
Koehler 40? Fender a problem.
Bob

Bill in PA · Nov 16, 2020

Quite a few automakers back then. Do you know where the photo was taken?

Bill

alphonso · Nov 16, 2020

Closest I can find is Jackson. Model E from 1909 looks pretty close. Rear fenders on some models are curved over tires rather than straight back. The Jackson Automobile & The Jackson Automobile Co.

alphonso · Nov 16, 2020

Bob,

Pretty sure it is not a Premier. Guy here has one. I've made parts for it. Doesn't look anything like OP's picture.

thermite · Nov 16, 2020

Bill in PA said:
Quite a few automakers back then. Do you know where the photo was taken?

Bill

...and all of them buying-in, from already thriving third-party suppliers..... a good deal of the not-so-visible engines, transmissions, differentials, shafts & couplings or joints, springs & perches, brakes....

The more visible are hard to use for ID, too, as many came from the same sources used by MANY "makers":

- the demountable-rim wheels

- the Acetylene generator and lamps...

- the squeeze-bulb horn.

- the hand operated brake lever grip-handle & ratchet,

- the windshield and stays.

And the coachwork, top, and upholstery..

Radiator & hood shape - a protective "grille" was often absent or a mere wire screen - were where each maker TRIED to be distinctive - recognizable at a distance.

dalmatiangirl61 · Nov 16, 2020

JohnEvans said:
Also all US made T's were left hand drive.

Possibly the negative it was printed from was reversed making it appear to be RH drive???

gbent · Nov 16, 2020

Cool front porch/house trim.

Bill D · Nov 16, 2020

dalmatiangirl61 said:
Possibly the negative it was printed from was reversed making it appear to be RH drive???

Maybe the photo was taken in Britain, South Africa etc?

Conrad Hoffman · Nov 16, 2020

dalmatiangirl61 said:
Possibly the negative it was printed from was reversed making it appear to be RH drive???

I think it's right way 'round as there seems to be a front license plate that's readable and the buttons on the man's jacket are on the right side. Not a clue about the car though. Love to see the negative if it still exists as there's probably lots more detail that could be extracted. The book/print could be scanned both ways around and the texture would cancel out.

Peter S · Nov 16, 2020

metalmagpie said:
.The shape of the fenders is distinctive and differentiates it from other cars of that era

I don't see anything odd about the fenders, fairly typical for say 1910?

For example Cadillac c.1910 looks similar, but they have an 'eyebrow' on the front fenders. Cadillac (and others) also had a similar abrupt vertical cowl and windscreen.

What seems unusual to me is that the hood/bonnet appears to extend over the radiator top tank.

I believe the steering wheel on the RH side was common on early American cars. Henry Ford popularized the LH side steer I think.

MetalCarnage · Nov 16, 2020

I'd look through this myself but don't have the time at the moment. Maybe it will help though - Earfy American Automobiles 1913 Models Many pages to look through.

-Ron

JohnEvans · Nov 16, 2020

Yep! lots of early American car were RH drive. The location of the the picture in the US could provide a clue. People at that time would tend to buy locally made or at least close by ,for better service etc. And in that time frame many if not most buyers picked up the car at the factory and drove it home. Dealer ships were thin on the ground especialy for the smaller mfgs.

CarbideBob · Nov 16, 2020

Fenders flat both in/out and lengthwise after wheel centerline with bead rolled edges. The rear appears to have a inner fender well or plate. Those odd. Most had some wrap or arc on the ends.
Early Buicks had fenders of this sort but some other stuff does not line up with those I know of.
Curved shifter lever and oil tank placement, no trim on cowl front.
Bob

Ralph_P · Nov 16, 2020

Could be a Franklin?

CarbideBob · Nov 16, 2020

Fenders and cowl length?
Details count. Problem being the details changed often.
Poke this to car museum guys at their home sites.
I sort of like this as Grandpa was on the boards and doing the design work back around this time.
If alive I'm sure he could ID it after one look but that information and advice gone and lost to me 49 years back
Bob

OT can you ID this car from a 1913 family photo?

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