OT- Converting espresso machine portafilter to pods...

For reasons peculiar to my situation, I want to convert a portafilter from standard espresso grounds to an espresso pod type. This is an Atomic Coffee Machine (actually the Bellman replica, I can't afford a real Atomic) and it does not come with the right portafilter basket.

When I try an espresso pod (these are a puck of espresso packaged in a filter fabric material) in the standard basket, most of the hot water just passes around the espresso and a very watery coffee is produced. I think the portafilters made for this have a tight fit around the perimeter, and perhaps less depth so that the water inlet plate is very near or maybe touching the pod. A normal portafilter has a bunch of tiny holes (they must be 0.010 or less) in the thin sheet bottom of the basket. Are these drilled? Lasered? Do I even need this sort of thing with a pod - which after all, is contained by the pod filter material.

I know there are a couple of espresso experts out there. I need your help!

I can turn a new basket out of aluminum, maybe drill the holes in the bottom on the Deckel but I am trying to learn what I can about the parameters involved so I don't have to make too many of them.

Sorry I probably can't help you much with specifics but my "other" great passion is coffee so may be able to provide a few hints.

Firstly, there are pod kits available for makes such as Rancillio Wholelattelove.com: Rancilio: Rancilio Silvia Pod-Adapter Kit: Parts & Care: Parts as I recall the atomic has quite a small basket (???) but maybe if you could modify one of the existing pod kits from a brand with the same size portafilter it may save a whole heap of reinventing?

I'm not sure how the holes are made, but it probably depends on the brand of basket anyway. In most of mine (commercial machines) the holes are REAL tiny. They look to me like they're actually formed from the bottom up (ie the outside of the basket) as little cone or rectangular shaped holes. A bit hard to explain, but imagine drilling a series of holes in the metal but stopping before the cone of the drill has actually broken through, the inside then seems to be ground to JUST expose the top of that cone. Hopefully that makes sense? I very much doubt you could just drill through holes as fine as the ones I've seen, certainly not with a dremel anyway. To give you an idea, if I fill the basket with water it will only slowly filter through, that's how fine they are!

As far as the fabric of the pod withstanding the pressure, I very much doubt it. A standard espresso machine delivers water at roughly 120 psi so whatever you have will need to withstand that pressure, and at a temperature not that much under boiling point. Sadly the humble little espresso machine starts to get awfully complicated once you start really delving in to it, and its no wonder top end machines command such high prices.

However, for your situation you may not be after "god shot" espresso, and a couple of things you will need to consider are;
the pressure and temperature as discussed above
a standard single shot espresso is around 7 grams and I think the pods are less than that from what I've seen but not sure? A standard shot is around 30 ml and if you pulled that much water through much under 7g it would taste like crap. I don't know what the pod kits do (other than make the pods fit), but you may need to modify the water flow rate so it doesn't just gush through the pod. Otherwise is it possible to at least obtain a single espresso basket for your current machine? It may give you a better head start on modifying.
The Italian standard for espresso is approximately 7g coffee, 25-30 ml water, extracted over 25-30 seconds (indeed would you believe it's actually the legal requirement there). However in the US (land of bigger is better), people tend to extract more than 30 ml. If you do that and you're already under-dosing by using a pod you will almost certainly finish up with a crap result. You didn't mention which pods you were using, whether single or double pods.

All in all, the whole process may be just a little more complex than may first appear and an alternative may be just the retire the Atomic to a shelf and buy a pod capable replacement.

Pete

PS I'm sure you'll get some better information from others here than I've been able to provide, however a true coffee lover would never been seen dead using them as the coffee they contain is ALWAYS stale (forget how they're sealed, they're stale for reasons beyond explaining on this BB), the coffee they use is typically low quality, and they're an expensive way to buy coffee. They're the "tea bag" for coffee; convenient but little more can be said in their favour.

Pete,

Thanks for the tips. I may look into getting one of the pod kits, even if I can't adapt it I will learn a bit from it.

The Atomic comes with a single and double basket. You are right that I don't expect perfection from this machine, but retiring it is not an option (I just bought it!).

This is for use on my sailboat. I now carry 3 espresso machines (good thing I have the carbon floorboards to save weight...). The challenge is to get serviceable espresso from a stovetop machine. I have also a small electric which works OK, but it is fragile, large and difficult to store on a yacht, and pulls about 25 amps through the inverter when it is working. Also does not use pods. The other two are a Bellman single pass stovetop machine, and a Mooka Express swiss mocha stovetop. The former makes very weak coffee and is a cleanup problem. The latter makes a decent latte or mocha (that is all I ever do) but it is a smallish portion for us Americans and only one with a long cycle time (and is also a cleanup problem). The cleanup problem is serious on a boat with limited water while bashing to weather at 20 degrees heel.

The Atomic seems to make acceptable shots, has sufficient steam for two large lattes, is small and durable. Cleanup is less of a problem than the Bellman or Mooka because at least the coffee is confined to downstream of the portafilter. But fine control of the pressure, shot volume, etc. are not really possible. The reason I want to use pods is it will make the cleanup trivial. I guess if the pod is too small I could make my basket large enough to stack two. Given that it works at much lower than commercial pressure, I wonder if the hole size in the basket will be an issue.

Well I don't think I've been much help, as pods are outside my field, but maybe you could do a search or ask the question on this forum ... Home-Barista.com • Forums

One little trick some manufacturers use it to use a "pressurised" portafilter, and that may be worth looking into? Basically how it works is that the basket etc is standard, however where the spouts normally sit there's a little spring loaded valve that allows the pressure to build up above it before the pressure overwhelms the spring pressure and allows the coffee to flow through to the cup(s). I'm just thinking it could allow more flexibility over the size of the basket holes etc if you used a spring to control the brew rather than more traditional means. You'll never get great espresso, and as a coffee lover I can't believe I'm actually suggesting this but hey, sounds like desperate times

Another thing you may like to consider is to once again shelve the espresso machine and use an Aeropress Aerobie® AeroPress(TM) Coffee & Espresso Maker

I do a LOT of travelling for work and pack one of these in my bag along with a Kyocera ceramic burr hand grinder. Despite what the makers claim it does NOT produce espresso, rather something more like a VERY clean filter coffee but short (almost as short as espresso in volume), so you top up with hot water and milk if desired to make a regular sized coffee. It doesn't have the body of espresso, so it's a very different drink, but with a good quality, lightly roasted single origin I can pretty much assure you it will be the best coffee you will ever have. Not sure if that may be something to consider, as it's certainly clean and easy and I like both the Aeropress and espresso depending on mood; the latter if I really want to taste the nuances in a particular bean as we roast lighter for the Aeropress. I guess I'd compare an espresso to a full brown, rip your balls off Australian Shiraz wine, while the Aeropress is more like a delicate cold climate wine. Both can be very good, just different. The Aeropress I think comes from a company up your way.

Pete

Pete, do you use your aeropress enroute? I am tired of having to wait to get home for a decent shot. Coffee, coffee everywhere and not a drop to drink.

Speaking of which, got some elephant beans about to hit first crack.

The filter holes were probably photo etched. A company I had bid on a photo etching project also produced coffee filters.

You could probably turn an aluminum cup to fit your coffee. the sides would not need holes. In the bottom place a disk cut from one of those gold filters available at most grocery stores.

My Mr. Coffee espresso maker (all I can afford) has a little aluminum basket in it. Maybe one could be fitted to your machine.

I am with Pete F, the Aeropress Aerobie® AeroPress is great for travel. Best $26 I ever spent. Amazon.com has them with free shipping. I use an old German hand grinder and heat the water in a microwave.

The Aeropress does not steam milk, so no lattes, can't use it. Also it doesn't seem to offer an advantage in extraction over the Atomic, and at the same time looks like a cleaning headache. Might work for other purposes, but not for mine.

swarf_rat said:

The Aeropress does not steam milk, so no lattes, can't use it. Also it doesn't seem to offer an advantage in extraction over the Atomic, and at the same time looks like a cleaning headache. Might work for other purposes, but not for mine.

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Check out the video of the Aeropress before you write it off. I have used (and own) dozens of coffee producing devices (including a full commercial set-up in my home kitchen!) and rate it extremely highly, as do most coffee enthusiasts I know. No it's not an espresso machine, but neither is your Atomic copy in the true sense of the word, to be strict in this term it means it delivers approximately 9 bar at around 92 degrees. Anything other than and it's not "espresso" no matter how much the marketing departments may like to convince you otherwise. For what amounts to a pitiful investment I'd try using an Aeropress for the coffee extraction and steam the milk using the Atomic or other device. It MAY not have enough body for your taste but for sweet bugger all cost wise it's not much to lose and at least you wouldn't have to resort to those God awful pods!

As far as cleanup of the Aeropress being a "headache", it couldn't be further from the truth. The video on their site is exactly how it works in reality; undo the bayonet base, push the plunger further to eject the puck with the filter, and wipe or rinse the base.

The bottom line is that it's going to be very difficult for you to get really good espresso based milk drinks from what you've described (in a past life I used to work on yachts so I'm reasonably familiar with what you're likely dealing with). If your mind is definitely made up to modify the "Atomic" to take pods, well I'm sure it's certainly possible. However before going to all that trouble to achieve an outcome that will, I can assure you, produce something that at best will be mediocre quality wise, maybe it's worth exploring a few options outside the box?

Greg, yep use the Aeropress in the galley from time to time. The company supplied coffee even tastes less awful if you can't be bothered bringing your own. As mentioned I have a hand grinder and generally roast up some beans before I leave to take with me. I put a post up on the company site about them and understand quite a number of guys are now taking them with them. Clearly I have no interest in the company that produces the Aeropress, and was VERY sceptical of all the hype at first, but have to hand it to them, it's a simple device that works exactly as they say it will so you've got to be happy with that.

5thwheel, yes they could be etched but the insides of at least one of the baskets I have (La Marzocco) is definitely ground, so maybe they etch the outside and grind to spec? I've never tried to make one of course but have often wondered how the heck they get the holes so small and yet so consistent, the consistency is one thing that makes a good basket. The gold filter is a brilliant idea, far too coarse compared to a standard commercial filter basket (as I say they will hold water), but may be ideal for the OP's use.

Pete

Thanks Pete. I have a couple of Zassenhaus grinders that would work great with one of those. Beans I always have-got 25 kg last week.

Yeah they should go great with the Aeropress. Sorry OT but for those in Australia reading this who may like to give the Aeropress a try this gentleman sells them Ministry Grounds - Home he's a coffee loving priest (sure, why not) who does this on the side. The reason I posted it is he imports some truly excellent beans into Oz. He's also a super nice guy so good on him.

The Aeropress video does explain the cleanup, doesn't look that bad. It is inexpensive, maybe I will try one. To do a latte, I would need to 1) heat water, 2) heat up the steaming device, 3) use the Aeropress - so more stuff involved for sure. Have you ever used one of the milk frothing devices like this one?

I tried something a bit similar (but without the wisk end) years ago and it was a joke. But if it worked, I could 1) heat the milk in the user cup in the microwave, 2) froth it with this frother, 3) use the Aeropress - now not too much extra stuff to get out, clean, put away. Although the microwave is not gimbaled, so may not work in rough conditions.

swarf_rat said:

The Aeropress video does explain the cleanup, doesn't look that bad. It is inexpensive, maybe I will try one. To do a latte, I would need to 1) heat water, 2) heat up the steaming device, 3) use the Aeropress - so more stuff involved for sure. Have you ever used one of the milk frothing devices like this one?

I tried something a bit similar (but without the wisk end) years ago and it was a joke. But if it worked, I could 1) heat the milk in the user cup in the microwave, 2) froth it with this frother, 3) use the Aeropress - now not too much extra stuff to get out, clean, put away. Although the microwave is not gimbaled, so may not work in rough conditions.

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Yeah certainly an extra "device" in using an Aeropress but as you've seen in the video the cleanup is remarkably easy and I figure at that price worth a gamble if it were me. The main "concern", if that's the correct term, isn't so much the cleanup, it's the fact that the process of extracting an espresso uses the pressure to extract a lot if the coffee oils from the grounds. You can see that if you pull an espresso and leave it in a cup there will be an oily brown stain left. Since the Aeropress doesn't use this high pressure it doesn't extract the oils to anywhere near the same extent and the main difference is the mouthfeel between the two, as the coffee oils coat the tongue while drinking.

While I typically drink lattes, if I use the Aeropress I'll drink it black, simply because I like the fact it brings out the nuances in the particular bean/blend I'm drinking. To be honest I've never tried adding milk to an Aeropress extraction but will give it a go today if I get the chance. This gets into an area where it's really up to personal taste. While I may find it just doesn't have the body to pass muster, others may be just fine with it, being closer what they're accustomed to. In the US serving sizes tend to be much larger than elsewhere, so what I may view as a "bucket" of milk is served with a single, or if you're lucky, a double shot of espresso. It's basically coffee flavoured milk, but that's just a case of what the general population are used to. If you were to increase the ratio of coffee to milk when using the Aeropress you may be able to get something that's vaguely similar to what you may be served from a typical mainstream coffee outlet in the US. Anyway, that will be for you to decide.

As far as the milk, no I wouldn't waste my money on one of those milk frothers. When you stretch milk by steaming you chemically change the proteins in the milk (why the milk becomes sweet, and also why 90% of people overheat their milk and "burn" it) and introduce very small air bubbles that once again give the drink mouthfeel, those battery things simply give the milk a bubble bath. Maybe it looks impressive but that's about it. What I envisaged was using one of your existing machines to create the steam for the milk (and the hot water for the Aeropress if possible), so basically you're just using a standard espresso arrangement but instead of using the machine to extract the coffee use the Aeropress. Otherwise I think it will all get a bit too complicated from what I can see. Incidentally, in Italy for a caffe latte at home you'd use one of the stove top moka pots for the coffee and a broad rim jug (pitcher if you prefer) on the stove next to it to heat the milk, no steaming at all! At a cafe of course they're made the typical way we all know.

Alternatively find a really good roaster in your area (or mail order from 49th parallel) and appreciate the coffee without milk

Pete

Pete F said:

Incidentally, in Italy for a caffe latte at home you'd use one of the stove top moka pots for the coffee and a broad rim jug (pitcher if you prefer) on the stove next to it to heat the milk, no steaming at all! At a cafe of course they're made the typical way we all know.

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Being directly involved I confirm this!
Also, the Italian "caffelatte" is seen as a typical supper for retired people... with hard broken bread inside
In the Italian bars we have an espresso variant not very known abroad: the "caffè lungo" (long coffee). It is made running more water through a normal espresso filter, so it becomes less concentrated. People generally thinks in this way the coffee is milder, but actually it contains more caffeine because of the deeper washing.
Coffee fanatics use the "caffettiera napoletana" (photo on Wikimedia Commons) but it requires a lot of time, because water must be heated (below the boiling point) then, if I remember correctly, the part with the beak must be threaded over the water pot and the whole must be turned upside down, waiting for water to slowly filter through the grind coffee. Of course you get a warm coffee, not a hot one.

Pete F said:

5thwheel, yes they could be etched but the insides of at least one of the baskets I have (La Marzocco) is definitely ground, so maybe they etch the outside and grind to spec? I've never tried to make one of course but have often wondered how the heck they get the holes so small and yet so consistent, the consistency is one thing that makes a good basket.

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I repair and service Espresso machines for a living, so I see a lot of these day in day out. For the most part I believe the process of manufacturing the holes in a filter basket involves punching the holes into the basket from the outside, then lightly grinding the inside surface to remove the burrs left from the punching process and expose the 'tip' of the punched holes. Not sure how exactly they control the hole size, but the control of espresso extraction speed is more a function of the grind of the coffee, quantity of coffee and the tamping force used to compact it into the basket, not so much the hole size in the filter basket.

Well I did a search on the ESE consortium, and came up with this drawing for a portafilter basket. Also there seems to be a number of pod baskets available aftermarket or as repair parts, so I might be able to find one that fits or comes close to fitting. One thing many of the adapter kits seems to do is close down the inlet diffuser to a much smaller area. It may be a little hard to read on the uploaded drawing, but the hole size is called out as 0.2 mm with a max of 0.25 mm.

MorganGT said:

I repair and service Espresso machines for a living, so I see a lot of these day in day out. For the most part I believe the process of manufacturing the holes in a filter basket involves punching the holes into the basket from the outside, then lightly grinding the inside surface to remove the burrs left from the punching process and expose the 'tip' of the punched holes. Not sure how exactly they control the hole size, but the control of espresso extraction speed is more a function of the grind of the coffee, quantity of coffee and the tamping force used to compact it into the basket, not so much the hole size in the filter basket.

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Ah yes, I can see that now, thanks for that. Somehow etching just didn't look right and I wondered about the square holes in some of my baskets. It didn't even occur to me that they were punched, but of course. D'oh!!

You're absolutely right in that traditionally the extraction speed is controlled by grind, dose size, and tamp. However in this instance the OP was wanting to use pods, where none of these variables are adjustable. My concern with trying to create a basket by drilling holes with a dremel was that the basket would provide absolutely zero back pressure, and with none of the traditional variables able to be tightened up, it would be difficult to produce anything other than gushers.

One thing I would ask the OP (and similarly those who lurk) is why you want to produce lattes on board? It may sound like a stupid question but the reason I ask is that I've seen similar situations coming up many, MANY times with people buying espresso machines for their homes. Australia is almost 100% espresso based outside the home, the only time you'll see filter coffee here is by caterers at conventions etc.; it's always crap. Indeed Australia has the highest per capita home ownership of espresso machines in the world. A typical scenario is that somebody will decide they want good coffee at home instead of just at a cafe, so quit the instant coffee, buy a cheap "espresso machine" and a pack of ground coffee from the supermarket. The result is poor, so maybe they upgrade the machine, same coffee. Still poor, so next maybe comes a grinder and whole supermarket beans, still poor. Another upgrade, this time perhaps from a speciality retailer who suggests buying fresh beans from a good roaster. Bingo, finally some half reasonable coffee. The point I'm hoping to make is that sometimes people associate espresso with "good" coffee and any other method as "bad" coffee. The problem isn't with the brewing method, it's with the beans being used. People say they want to be able to make espresso based drinks at home, hence need an espresso machine, when in fact what they ACTUALLY mean is they want better QUALITY coffee at home. Espresso is simply being used as shorthand for "good".

Sorry for the long-winded post, but it's also for the (hopeful) benefit of those who lurk and may find themselves in a similar situation at home. If the answer to the question is you want an espresso machine because you only like to drink espresso based drinks, or you want to boast about having an espresso machine onboard etc etc then I have no doubt with all the clever minds here you'll figure out a way to get your current machine to take pods. BUT I can pretty much guarantee the best you can look forward to (for reasons I won't crap on about here) is mediocre coffee. IF on the other hand the answer is that instant coffee tastes like shite and you want GOOD tasting coffee onboard then there are other means that WILL produce excellent coffee and are far cheaper; it's all about the bean.

As you can tell I'm a big fan of the Aeropress (for some situations) and they can be purchased for peanuts. BUT they MUST be paired with a grinder. If you're not grinding your coffee just before you brew it you're drinking stale coffee, no ifs, no buts about that. There's a rough rule of 3s in the industry, coffee lasts 3 minutes after grinding, 3 weeks after roasting, and 3 years after harvesting before it's stale and should be thrown out just like stale bread. The Kyocera hand grinder I take away with me is perfect for the Aeropress as you put the whole beans in the top and that snaps shut, while the grounds fall into a clear container on the bottom that screws on. It just happens that the bottom container is the perfect size to tip upside down into the Aeropress and not even 1 spec of coffee makes a mess.

The final, and absolutely MOST critical ingredient is quality beans. If you're buying beans from a supermarket they are stale (forget the foil packaging, it's porous to oxygen). They're probably also crap to begin with, multi-nationals screwing everyone for the lowest bid. Either find a good local roaster or order through mail order (and at first I would suggest the latter). Two roasters I can recommend in north America are Intellenstsia Coffee Intelligentsia Coffee and Tea | Intelligentsia Coffee & Tea and 49th Parallel 49th Parallel Coffee Roasters.

Of course none of the above may be applicable to the OP, but I know a lot of people lurk here and I've witnessed countless people waste a heck of a lot of money on crappy department store "espresso machines" only to be terribly disappointed with the coffee they can produce at home. Yet all that was needed was an Aeropress or French press, a grinder and GOOD QUALITY, WELL ROASTED FRESH BEANS.

Pete

Incidentally I live 6 months of the year from a suitcase, hence my attraction to easy, fast, and no mess means of producing quality coffee. The beauty of the Aeropress in my situation is that it's made of food grade plastic and seems pretty much indestructible. The grinder, press and some whole beans take up about 1/3 size of a typical lunch box. The process of grinding the beans (the longest process) and brewing the coffee takes only a few minutes, not a heck of a lot more than making an instant, so it may be of interest to those here who work in a shop and are over drinking crap coffee all day.

Ratty, I took one for the team and brewed up a coffee exactly the same as I would normally however used an Aeropress and steamed the milk in a pitcher as I was suggesting. The result was quite interesting. Firstly it has little body, as we'd be expecting. But, as is typical with the Aeropress was VERY smooooth.

As far as the milk is concerned, well sorry to say the Aeropress brew won't hold latte-art if that's your thing It's not possible to control the interface between the coffee and the milk and I found the two simply mixed in together. The result is what we'd call in Australia a "flat white" ... and a very milky one at that. I've had similar in France as cafe au lait, not sure if it's drunk in your part of the US. However I'm confident that if less milk was used you'd have quite a nice drink, but don't think I would be bothered trying to steam the milk, just heat it to 60C/140F and drop it in just as the Italians would do.

Hope that helps with the thought process.

Pete

Pete F said:

the only time you'll see filter coffee here is by caterers at conventions etc.; it's always crap.

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Last summer I went to Greece, saying "Filtered Coffee" in Greece got me no where at the coffee shops, anyways out of frustration I just drank other coffee's I knew they knew. Turns out I should have been asking for "French Coffee" which I did not find out till almost 2 months into my trip.

Mind you ordering "French Coffee" black/plain (Sketo) seemed to get me a few looks anyways.

Dimitri

Pete,

Clearly you are more passionate about your coffee than me!

I actually rarely drink coffee, almost always latte or mocha. The lattes are more like cafe au lait. The mochas MUST have Starbucks chocolate in them. You may laugh (I am not a big fan of Starbucks coffee), but the mocha chocolate they use seems quite unique.

I don't need anything very high quality, I am not going to grind beans onboard (though I do at home). I am happy to wait until I reach port and sample what the local establishments produce. However while underway or at anchor, I want something better than the "instant" Nestle version, and better than what I have been able to get from the Bellman single pass. The Bialetti Moka Express actually produces a drink good enough for me, but it is a pitiful 12 oz or so, not even enough for one drink let alone two, and the cleaning is an involved process. Also the quality is pretty finicky about beans and grind.

By the way the ESE specs say that the brew pressure must be 9 bars, 7 bars absolute minimum. I doubt I am going to get that in the Atomic, or it really would be The Bomb.