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  1. #61
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    Sounds like the Donald Trump method. Agree to pay the amount, then once it is delivered, say you are only willing to pay 70% of it. I'm Donald Trump, take it or leave it.

    F the lawyers and force them to sue you in your state. If it actually comes down to court, well, shit happens.

  2. #62
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    If you're a lawyer, does it actually cost you money to initiate a lawsuit? Like are there any significant fees for filing certain paperwork with the state/government or having the papers served?

  3. #63
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    Anything involving interstate commerce goes to the Federal courts since individual states do not have jurisdiction over one another.

    From 2-401 of the Uniform Commercial Code
    (2) Unless otherwise explicitly agreed title passes to the buyer at the time and place at which the seller completes his performance with reference to the physical delivery of the goods, despite any reservation of a security interest and even though a document of title is to be delivered at a different time or place; and in particular and despite any reservation of a security interest by the bill of lading

    (a) if the contract requires or authorizes the seller to send the goods to the buyer but does not require him to deliver them at destination, title passes to the buyer at the time and place of shipment; but
    (b) if the contract requires delivery at destination, title passes on tender there.
    So, unless otherwise specified in the contract documents, the goods became the property of the buyer upon delivery by the OP to the shipping company. If that's the case, their beef is with the shipping company rather than the OP.

    Suggesting the OP offer to split the shipping cost is bad advice as such an offer constitutes an admission on the part of the OP that he bears some responsibility for the poor performance of the trucker.

    In contracts where "time is of the essence", liquidated damages for late delivery are specified as a part of the contract. Everyone wants everything yesterday, but when they refused to pay some premium for a guaranteed delivery date, they demonstrated the fact that their desired delivery date actually had little to no monetary value.

    I'd tell 'em they've got my address for where to send the court documents, and ignore them after that. It will cost them $400 to open a civil case in Federal court.

  4. #64
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    I too am amazed at how many people are saying just pay them. I understand in some circumstances that would make sense. For example you sent them a certified letter that included something like "normal freight is guaranteed to make your deadline".

    I've represented myself twice in court and I am 2-0. Its not as scary as some make it out to be. But you do have to have your shit in order. My little brother is also in his last year of law school and I've learned quite a bit from him as well.

    The main thing to keep in mind with any business dealings is to stick to facts and keep it all in writing. Any terms, deliverables or guarantees should be clearly spelled out in a contract or on a PO or invoice. This is no sure fire way to keep from getting sued but it helps deter those types.

    If you did not send them anything that hints you recommended cheaper non-guaranteed shipping when they asked for the product to arrive on a specific date then you are likely in the clear. While there are all kinds of gotchas and pit falls in the law for most simple small claims stuff like this it pretty much comes down to facts that can be proved in court. Saying you promised that, for 600$, this shit would arrive whatever date they wanted over the phone means nothing in court, even if you did, because they have to prove that. Most judges are not as stupid as the idiot that sued his dry cleaners. I'm pretty sure he was removed from the bench for that.

    If you have emails or copies of letters where you recommended guaranteed shipping if they have to have it by a certain date then I doubt they have a leg to stand on and I'm sure they know this. Especially if its some HR lackey that tried to save a few bucks and left egg on his bosses face. If you are not sure about what you may have said in an email or something and they persist just call a few law firms.

    Contrary to popular belief not all lawyers are ass holes. In fact some go out of their way to help folks like you as they detest those that abuse their position in cases like this. Some are complete d-bags but keep in mind this punk at the HR desk may be doing all this on his own to save face with his boss. That happened to me when I sued my landlord. Anyway call a few law firms that have good reviews on yelp or google, I prefer small firms myself, and you will be surprised as one will likely give you advice pro-bono over the phone and based on the facts you tell him, give you a fairly accurate description of how things will shake out. It doesn't appear you feel this way, but in the event you are, scrap any thoughts of counter suing and doing whatever you can to piss them off.

    On a side note to some of the posters, I would have to be days away from selling all my tools before I would even consider taking a fucking penny from a company that did this to me. Repeat business from a company that threatens to sue me over their own dumb ass mistake... Have some self respect!

    Good luck and keep us posted.

    -Clint

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  6. #65
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    Winning in court is the easy part.
    Keeping the company alive for 50 years is the hard part.
    One should know when to hold and when to fold.
    Go ahead, take a stand, be litigious, fight, fight, fight over pennies...others will gladly pick up your work.
    Probably 20 to 40 guys here who would love to take your customer away once you get your money free and clear.
    No matter how good you are, nobody on this planet can not be replaced by others.
    A bird in the hand and all that.... a lesson some here have not had yet evidently.

    You could be very right. You could end up dead right.
    Learn to play. How could you have made this mess not happen? What should have been done differently?
    How could you have stopped xyz's desk jockey clerk's from screwing up if you feel no harm on your side?
    What card did you not play?
    For sure I've been here and looking back blame myself for not covering my ass well enough, never blaming others, that is chickenshit excuses.
    No matter how bad, one can always find a way to justify things and say it's not my fault. That is all about how you make yourself feel good.

    The customer had an expectation, you could not meet it. They are unhappy.
    Who is the low man on the totem pole? Does the buck stop on your desk or do you pass it?
    Life sucks. There is no promise it will be fair or easy.

    Bob

  7. #66
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    Bob I completely understand what you are saying. But it is only valid to a certain extent in my opinion. Sure we all make mistakes and we can always do better. In my eyes if you are not making mistakes and striving to constantly improve, whatever it is you do in life, than you are likely getting stagnant and staying in your comfort zone. Imagine a world were everyone folded up and wilted like old lettuce at the mere mention of a lawsuit.

    Are their risks? Sure there are. Life is full of them. But some things in life are worth standing up for. And in this case what is the OP out standing up to a bunch of chicken shit lawyers? $600? To me that is not enough to bend over to some frivolous lawsuit unless I know I screwed up and their claim had merit because of something I did.

    When I was a young buck I had a hot head and that is partially what lead to my first court case. But I was also very cautious, if I couldn't ensure that I could stack the deck in my favor. I wouldn't have went to court that day if I believed I only had say a 20% chance of winning.

    What changed my mind was one day I watched a show or video or something on D Day and I thought to myself how could so many people step out of a rusty old higgen's boat on a cold beach only to likely get gunned down by a bunch of heavy machine gun wielding, entrenched nazi scum bags. Who wants to die that way I thought. But as I explored more about what happened that day and also the philosophical aspects of it I realized that every single man that chose to step of those boats and charge to their death selflessly is why Europe was not taken over by nazi's. To this day I say a little thank you on June 6th every year for everyone of those men who risked or did give their life on that day and many others.

    I'm sure George Washington had similar thoughts when deciding if it was worth risking what was likely a fairly comfortable life for fighting for the freedom from a despot for a country that did not yet exist.

    Those examples might seem extreme but for the OP the only thing on the line here is probably no more than $600 and some court fees. That is a small price to stand up to some dirt bags that want to make an already litigious society that much worse by further empowering these dirt bags. Now if losing $600 is enough to sink the business then he probably has bigger problems than this lawsuit.

    Some things are worth fighting for my friend.

    -Clint

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  9. #67
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    Just to answer the nervous nellies who are advising caving in to the jerkoff customer who is threatening the OP

    Nobody is suggesting that the OP rush to the nearest courthouse. All that has happened is that some chickenshit customer has vaguely threatened, in an email no less, to sue the OP unless he forks over $300 to which they have absolutely no right. Going through life like a frightened little sheep letting yourself get bullied by such people is not a recipe for happiness.

    Common sense for any self-respecting business owner is to ignore such threats and have nothing further to do with those who make them.

    In the 1% chance that this loser actually does something, like write a threatening letter to you on letterhead (horror of horrors), common sense for any self-respecting business owner is to once again ignore the idiot.

    In the 1 out of 10,000 chance that this loser actually acts on his ridiculous threat and files a small claims case, common sense for any self-respecting business owner is to write the court and ask the presiding judge to dismiss the case for lack of personal jurisdiction--hardly a difficult thing to do, since I already provided the exact text of the letter above.

    ...or you could just be a pussy and send him a check for $300 along with an ass-kissing apology letter.

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  11. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Augus7us View Post

    When I was a young buck I had a hot head and that is partially what lead to my first court case. But I was also very cautious, if I couldn't ensure that I could stack the deck in my favor. I wouldn't have went to court that day if I believed I only had say a 20% chance of winning.
    Not that I'm afraid of going to court. The largest cutting tool maker in Japan had to write me a $350,000 check when they violated my distributor agreement which was yea, new 1100hp offshore, great fun.
    Almost 30 years out looking back perhaps it was not a win.
    But you pick your battles and look at if you have some fault.
    There is a time to stand and a time to be humble.
    Bob

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  13. #69
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    This is my take on the whole thing.....

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