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OT: Different point of view on American education

nerdyrcdriver

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 2, 2017
This is a great interview with Mike Rowe from 2013. It covers how not everyone needs to or should go to college. I just graduated with a degree in electrical engineering, but that doesn't mean that I should automatically get paid more than someone in a job that doesn't require college education. Yes, it is helpful to pay off those pesky loans, but I have worked with some great people that have some incredible skills without ever attending anything past high school, and sometimes even middle school.

Personally, I love working with my hands and using machines or big wrenches. Hard work deserves high payment. But at the same time, if you are incredibly knowledgeable in a specific field, the job isn't necessarily hard, but you may earn more because of your expertise. Honestly, if I were to do it all over again, i'd probably go to trade school multiple times for different specialties.

Note: The link sometimes causes the video to start 10 minutes into the interview. I highly recommend starting from the beginning and watching the first 20ish minutes.

Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe on the High Cost of College (Full Interview) - YouTube
 
Cant get audio on my computer so no video..I think work ethic should be taught in school..how to pay attention.. work hard..appreciate someone paying you for your time..
I just spent this hot day working with a guy half my age..and he did half or less what I did..go figure.. no wonder he does not have a job..

Yes we were not working for pay just helping my son and his friend..cut trees with a portable sky track and stack brush piles.

My son has the best work ethic..sends shop owner a Christmas card with thanking him for the job..does not take any extra breaks , no cell on the clock....does not break if something is down.. ..makes about 130k on the clock(at I think $30) and got about 35k bonus this year..
 
No hero of Mr Rowe here.

His T.V. show showing the worst jobs (Dirty jobs) and poking fun
of the people doing them, ruined anything he can now do to repair
his previous "Work".

When I went to Tech school, the teacher (long dead) was a stickler
for "Keeping your shirt tucked in", and would pretty much
smack anyone in the hallway violating his rule.

Even the other class's students.

That tech school taught us to show up on time, work hard, and
other "Life Lessons".

Unfortunately, in todays public school system (and it's teacher unions) would have my old teacher up on charges.

I recall him catching a student chewing tobacco.....he made the
student eat the remaining tobacco, and then he stood over him
at the drinking fountain, until he decided when the student
could stop drinking water (sure to make him sick).
 
Personally, I love working with my hands and using machines or big wrenches. Hard work deserves high payment. But at the same time, if you are incredibly knowledgeable in a specific field, the job isn't necessarily hard, but you may earn more because of your expertise.

Interestingly most employers tend to agree with that. I'd suggest that folks who want to get a job, figure out what the
employer actually wants, and pays for. Not what's kicked around on the innernets.
 
Most people with a smidgen of intelligence continually self educate throughout their lives.They will probably have more hours self educating in their careers than collage graduates have gaining their degrees but have no paper recognizing that. Of course people with a degree don't stop learning after collage they just start,it's called experience.
I remember watching a Shirley Temple movie as a kid,in it a crotchety old man,uncle Sam I believe, in reference to his son in-law and collage said something like"If you ain't got it,4 years of collage won't give it to you,If you have it why waste 4 years".

While said in jest there is a lot of truth in it.If you have no self motivation and work ethic no amount of formal education will give it to you.

Having the degree will defiantly give you an edge when applying for a job and earnings and advancement will come quicker than a non degreed person with the same skill level.
 
Most employers expect you to have a degree, especially if you work on a government contract. A degree does not make you smarter, or a better employee. One thing college is good for is to teach you how to learn, and absorb the required information in the shortest period of time. College is the network that you enter at your most formative age and you make connections that last a lifetime, well most cases, in my case I left all that behind :). Not all people are cut out for college, some are not well suited for the experience, and would benefit more from hands-on learning and labor, and that is a very needed segment of the population. The US education system totally neglects that need.

dee
;-D
 
No hero of Mr Rowe here.

His T.V. show showing the worst jobs (Dirty jobs) and poking fun
of the people doing them, ruined anything he can now do to repair
his previous "Work".
I never got that impression from Dirty Jobs. Yes, he would joke about raising maggots, or cleaning the inside of a garbage truck, but I really never thought he was insulting the people that were doing the work.

I've got a Mechanical Engineering degree. I do not work as an engineer, but the background was invaluable. I do not think college is for everyone. In fact, I think our education system is a total disaster. Kids are paying rip-off prices and many aren't learning anything useful.
 
Back in the late 60s, when it was a common phrase, my girl friend was looking for a car. One listed turned out to be from a grandfather who had bought it for his grandson. Granddad said that after he bought the car, the kid quit his job to "find himself", so I'm going to let him find himself on foot.

Bill
 
I will disagree with one point. Hard work deserves respect, not necessarily high pay. You get high pay when you provide a service that is not easy to find. I can go down to the local field where the illegals line up for work and find an incredible hard worker. I respect the man but I don't pay high wages because there are many others lining up to provide the same exact service.
Become an expert in RF circuit design and people who need that service will pay lots of money for it. Because there are far fewer people who can do the work.
 
Most employers expect you to have a degree, especially if you work on a government contract. A degree does not make you smarter, or a better employee. One thing college is good for is to teach you how to learn, and absorb the required information in the shortest period of time. College is the network that you enter at your most formative age and you make connections that last a lifetime, well most cases, in my case I left all that behind :). Not all people are cut out for college, some are not well suited for the experience, and would benefit more from hands-on learning and labor, and that is a very needed segment of the population. The US education system totally neglects that need.

dee
;-D

According to the movies,college is for drinking beer and doing dumb stuff!!
 
The willingness to learn is an individual trait. Those that choose to will learn rather in college or not. Some people are content to live a ho hum existence.
 
I will disagree with one point. Hard work deserves respect, not necessarily high pay. You get high pay when you provide a service that is not easy to find. I can go down to the local field where the illegals line up for work and find an incredible hard worker. I respect the man but I don't pay high wages because there are many others lining up to provide the same exact service.
Become an expert in RF circuit design and people who need that service will pay lots of money for it. Because there are far fewer people who can do the work.

Oink Oink!!

OTOH, I have no formal education. And I get paid less. <(that's a period). I show the Men and Gals with formal Educations how to do their job-literally. I had to teach a guy with a Bachelors/Associates? in Software Design to use ®Numbers :eek:. I have had to show fityquinmillion people how to work out Pythagorean. I can't even think of how many different things I have shown the Educated. BUT, I knew damn well that I wasn't going to College, AND that because of it I was going to get paid less. IT wasn't some great surprise.

Our Education system is comical at best. You can get a Masters in Manufacturing on the Internet. Shit University of Phoenix will get you a Degree in whatever you want, just pay for it.

I know a very good Cook, best I know, guess how much he makes. Just because they are lined up waiting for the job doesn't mean they can sell $20,000 in a single night and make everyone happy that came to the Restaurant. Less than 40k BTW. Capitalists have ruined it all, not us and not Education as a Principle, Oink Oink.

Robert
 
I think that education is the key element in improving yourself and our society. That does not automatically mean that everyone should go to college. Each should follow their own path. But each should HAVE A PATH for their education. And the school of hard knocks DOES COUNT.

A degree may not guarantee anything, but lack of a proper education is probably the surest path to failure. Schools of all types are probably the easiest way to acquire this education, but many have done it on their own. One of my grandfathers did not get past high school, if that far, but my grandmother said he was always reading. He could do whatever he put his mind to. I think I get a lot from him. If you want to succeed, then one way or another, you need an education.
 
...
When I went to Tech school, the teacher (long dead) was a stickler
for "Keeping your shirt tucked in", and would pretty much
smack anyone in the hallway violating his rule....
I recall him catching a student chewing tobacco.....he made the
student eat the remaining tobacco, and then he stood over him
at the drinking fountain, until he decided when the student
could stop drinking water (sure to make him sick).

Assholes are assholes. I had a few tech teachers like that, too. Unhappy sadists. Learning can be, at least, gratifying, if not flat out fun, but they just made life as miserable for the students as it was for them. They're the reason I hated school, feel my balls tighten up every time I step into them and 50 years later still refuse to donate to them, private, public, whatever.
 
Assholes are assholes. I had a few tech teachers like that, too. Unhappy sadists. Learning can be, at least, gratifying, if not flat out fun, but they just made life as miserable for the students as it was for them. They're the reason I hated school, feel my balls tighten up every time I step into them and 50 years later still refuse to donate to them, private, public, whatever.

I had no problem with him, he was not a sadist.

Kept your nose clean and did your work, he was good with that.

Violate the published rules (like no tobacco, plus the kid is underage as well)
You consider his punishment "sadist" ?

Don't swab him with the same brush as all these pedo priests.

We had plenty-O them, mostly gym teachers.....another one they made
a "Award winning PBS cartoon" out of.....he was on a power trip.

But not my vo-tech teacher.
 
Rant ON!!!!!

At one point in time an education was designed to make you more saleable in your chosen field. I have no problem with education at any level as long as there is some purpose to it. What I dislike is the degrees available today in fields that have no purpose other then making a person "better rounded". There are other ways to become more well rounded than spending $50,000.00 for a degree in underwater basket weaving. To that point it seems that the included cost of an education today is seen as more than tuition cost of materials and fees.

Now everyone wants to include the cost of living in a luxury apartment, the cost of their social life, and of course some type of transportation. While these things may be necessary, they are not part of the cost of getting an education. Unless you choose to live in a tent on BLM land these expenses are part of anyone's life regardless of what career path they take.

It's frustrating to hear of all the kids in debt up to their eye balls and a degree that's absolutely worthless. People complain about the price of education, but if you think about it the cost of a full 4 years of college is less then 2 years salary in most professional fields. Reality falls hard on those who spent the money, have a degree, and are still only qualified to work at a fast food restaurant.

What's worse is the proponents that feel a college degree should be at no expense to the student. At what point do people finally realize there is no free lunch. Everything has a price. The fact that you're not paying for it does not mean it's free. What it means is someone else is carrying the burden of your education. At some point you have to become a responsible adult and carry your own burden. You have to have some skin in the game to have any interest in its outcome. Mommy and daddy and the rest of the "village aren't going to be your guardians forever.


Rant over for now
 
The willingness to learn is an individual trait. Those that choose to will learn rather in college or not. Some people are content to live a ho hum existence.

You are right, but college is just an environment conducive to learning and learning how to learn. I always say you can enroll in MIT and learn squat, or go to a community college and learn everything you need. The difference will be the network you establish.


dee
;-D
 
I think that education is the key element in improving yourself and our society. That does not automatically mean that everyone should go to college. Each should follow their own path. But each should HAVE A PATH for their education. And the school of hard knocks DOES COUNT.

A degree may not guarantee anything, but lack of a proper education is probably the surest path to failure. Schools of all types are probably the easiest way to acquire this education, but many have done it on their own. One of my grandfathers did not get past high school, if that far, but my grandmother said he was always reading. He could do whatever he put his mind to. I think I get a lot from him. If you want to succeed, then one way or another, you need an education.

That kinda goes many different ways...but think of it this way, a guy without education is like a city without traffic lights, yes you can get through things but it is much more difficult. Having properly working traffic lights lets you zip through. Over time a self-taught individual will establish his own learning patterns. I had a recent experience, take a part of this craft, I started scraping my wood planes to make them flat, I got them flat alright, and then I took Richard King's class and in 5 days I got set straight in a hurry, I learned everything that I did not figure out in months.

dee
;-D
 








 
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