OT- Do any surgical anti snoring procedures actually work ? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Non-surgical: I gave my wife a large ball-pein hammer. I stopped snoring in three days.
    Aversion therapy works wonders.
    That isn't wrong. Mine would just PINCH me, hard. I thought she wanted sex, so it worked a treat until I grew too old to snore.. er wotever...

    That said, the brain IS capable of training-up a capability to monitor slipping into the danger zone and preventing that, even in deep or REM sleep. If/as/when it has misplaced the one it ORIGINALLY SHIPPED WITH as a long-term survival asset from times we were "food" for other predators.

    Portable. Cheap. Built-in. Needs no saline or distilled water for maintenance.

    If a body has learnt to not wet the bed, nor fall out of bed? This, too can work.
    After all - our remote ancestors had to learn to not fall out of trees, no hammock yet invented. Cetaceans don't often drown. The tools are still "there" for mammals.

    "Think it through". Literally.

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    My wife used to snore to the point I was wearing earplugs to bed(no apnea though). We had our daughter's wedding coming up so she got serious about Weight Watchers. She lost nearly a third of her peak body weight, and her snoring is completely gone. She's maintained her weight for a year. A good program for her. (I lost 25lbs just through "collateral damage" from the program.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I do know that the CPAP route appears to be a big scheme.

    Seems that everyone that goes for the sleep study fails it, even though
    everyone I know that has one said "I couldn't get any sleep in that lab"

    And I don't see anyone that uses one, get any of the benefits claimed (more restfull sleep, weight loss,
    better heart health)
    Doctors do scare you into using a cpap. "She stops breathing 125 times per hour". I told him that is bull $&@!. That is just not happening. I stayed up most of the night to monitor it. Then he said " well it is a calculated rate extrapolated from the few minutes when it actually happens". "Most of the night it is not happening."

    That being said my wife uses the machine and sleeps extremely well now. Snoring has stopped and I can sleep now also. I was extremely sceptical at first but I'm a believer now.

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    No offence to DD but listening to failures only has problems with your perception. I stopped breathing only 89 times an hour at my last sleep study. Report also said I did not tolerate the nasal mask so well, but lazy tech never tried it on me. So I did try the nasal mask at the 4th study. No more breathing through my mouth. I left that study with a full mask prescribed but bought a Dream Ware Nasal mask shortly after and that is my nocturnal routine. I will not go to sleep without it and bring it with me when I travel.
    Yeah, surgery. No. Sadly more loosers than winners from the operation and a lot of pain to heal.
    Correct sleep machine is not that noisy with a proper fitting mask.

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    To go back to my ranting mode, note that some folks got relief from surgery, some (most) didn't. Some like CPAPs and some don't (and some hate 'em but use 'em). Some folks stopped snoring after losing weight.

    It's.. It's ... It's almost like we're all different.

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    Here is what I can say about the subject Milacron:

    1) Of the surgical procedures, Uvulopalatopharyngoplasty (UPP) is one of the few surgical procedure that is generally accepted as potentially helping with obstructive sleep apnea (OSA). I say potentially because it isn't the end-all-be-all. If it was, then that surgery would become one of the most common surgeries in America. As it sits, it's not all that common. There is a lesson to be learned there.

    2) As to the other surgeries/procedures, they are even less common. If insurance companies label a surgery as cosmetic, then there is a lesson to be learned there. I don't work for an insurance company and I dislike them just like everyone else.

    3) The uncomfortable question: how much do you weigh? High body mass index (BMI) and OSA go together like pizza and beer.

    If you are interested in learning about OSA by virtue of some of the screening questionnaires, then look at the STOP BANG score. There is something to be learned there. Be gentle Bosleyjr, I'm talking in generalities, horseshoes and hand grenades here. The score is looking for things associated with OSA and does not imply a causative nature. High blood pressure is likely on there because high blood pressure goes with a high BMI (in my opinion). Fixing your blood pressure won't fix your snoring.




    Mike1979 -- by 'waking up' do you mean that you had stopped breathing or do you mean that there were changes in your brain waves?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    It's.. It's ... It's almost like we're all different.
    In more ways than a few. When the Docs took all but a smidgen of Dad's stomach and upper-GI tract out for a massive cancer, they casually mentioned most who survived the cancer died in their sleep within two years - strangled on gastric fluids as got into the lungs. No valves left, y'see.

    He put good-sized risers under the head, not foot to tilt his bed, else napped in a recliner, made another 30-odd years, died of sumthin' else in his 92nd year.

    Milacron didn't look overweight to me, last I saw him. Above my pay grade to know if even HE is the one snoring...or has simply been enjoying better cooking of late...


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    I was treated for sleep apnea about 2001. I used the Cpap machine for about 6 months but I couldn't keep it on at night, I would pull it off after about an hour. Then had the uvulopalatopharyngoplasty surgery plus there was surgery done on my sinuses. No more snoring as well as sleeping much better. As an aside I felt so much better that I started eating better and getting some exercise and lost over 100lbs.

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    Default Good results with CPAP

    I also had did a sleep study at home. The result that convinced to try the CPAP was not the frequency of waking, but the drop in blood oxygen saturation to 85%! I can’t say I like wearing the mask, but it’s not that bad. I sleep longer, feel better in the morning, and have lost weight. I’m also a biomedical scientist and medical school professor.

    Jon

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    I thought we evolved snoring to keep the other wild beasts out of our cave at night?

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    Quote Originally Posted by medsar View Post
    Be gentle Bosleyjr, I'm talking in generalities, horseshoes and hand grenades here.
    It seem to me that you offered some information that had some research behind it and was not overly dependent upon your own experience, and did not exclude other data (a problem we call "n=1, and I'M the one!"), and you offered some suggestions for follow through.

    No problem with that. No vicious personal attacks forthcoming - you're safe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by medsar View Post
    Here is what I can say about the subject Milacron:

    1) Of the surgical procedures, Uvulopalatopharyngoplasty (UPP) is one of the few surgical procedure that is generally accepted as potentially helping with obstructive sleep apnea (OSA). I say potentially because it isn't the end-all-be-all. If it was, then that surgery would become one of the most common surgeries in America. As it sits, it's not all that common. There is a lesson to be learned there.

    2) As to the other surgeries/procedures, they are even less common. If insurance companies label a surgery as cosmetic, then there is a lesson to be learned there. I don't work for an insurance company and I dislike them just like everyone else.

    3) The uncomfortable question: how much do you weigh? High body mass index (BMI) and OSA go together like pizza and beer.

    If you are interested in learning about OSA by virtue of some of the screening questionnaires, then look at the STOP BANG score. There is something to be learned there. Be gentle Bosleyjr, I'm talking in generalities, horseshoes and hand grenades here. The score is looking for things associated with OSA and does not imply a causative nature. High blood pressure is likely on there because high blood pressure goes with a high BMI (in my opinion). Fixing your blood pressure won't fix your snoring.




    Mike1979 -- by 'waking up' do you mean that you had stopped breathing or do you mean that there were changes in your brain waves?
    IIRC it was actually not breathing, but, as far as I know the machine measures changes in your breathing and o2 percents. I am not sure if the take home gear could accurately measure if you actually stopped breathing, or just had changes in your breathing, but I am not a Dr (I just play one LoL). Nothing attached to my noggin, as I did the test at home...

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    Have been using CPAP for the last 15 years. Dramatic improvement in my mood and energy.
    Had no idea that prolonged sleep deprivation had worn me down so much.
    Wife sleeps in her own bedroom. Even though my sleeping problems are resolved, she snores very loud, and..... surprise.. won't consider CPAP.
    But her snoring is minot to me. the reason she is in a separate bed is that she runs a footrace all night, while sleeping. Impossible situation resolved by seperation

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    I would occasionally snore and tried various remedies, from snore strips to sprays to dental devices. They really didn't work very well. My dentist suggest a Neti Pot (salt water nasal douche) and it worked well. I did it every night and the problem went away. Eventually, I stopped using that, too. I still snore once in a while, but apparently nothing like before.

    I know two people that use CPAP and like it. The majority of people that buy one give it up quickly.

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    I have spent my entire first 32 years of my working career in the heavy diesel world. Off shore,rail,tow boats, and truck. I always worked all I could all the time and thought that was why I was always tired. I could lean against the radiator of a 12-71 pump engine at full tilt in the winter and go to sleep on que. Always tired. In later years after a life threatening illness and hospitalization, I was diagnosed with apnea. Was put on a CPAP and have never looked back. Can’t sleep without it. Should have, would have done it years ago had I slowed enough to be checked. Unbelievable how rested I now feel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    My brother had something done at hospital here to reduce the noise he makes when snoring a few years ago. Like all hospital operations here doesn't cost anything.
    Yes it did cost something, you just did not get the bill.

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    I had the deviated septum surgery, did not work for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HuFlungDung View Post
    I thought we evolved snoring to keep the other wild beasts out of our cave at night?
    Turn-off to "wild beasts"? Surely that.

    Really. It is.

    Earliest, cheapest, and most enduring-effective means of birth-control.

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    I use a cpap and love it. The first one i had i couldnt use because the mask was huge and hurt my face. I got the nasal pillows and love it. During my sleep study you could see oxygen levels going down as the night progressed. I had quite a few apnea issues throughout the night. I definitely feel better with it. I know a few people who use them regularly and a few who should but dont. Generally speaking the ones who have a cpap but dont use it regularly seem to be looking for an excuse not to use it. They dont want to clean, and maintain it.
    A guy I work with had surgery for snoring where the cauterized the skin in the back of his throat (said it hurt like hell) and 7 years later he needs it again.

    I have wondered if the devices that move your jaw etc help with the apnea. Do they just eliminate the noise? or do they also eliminate the apnea and increase oxygen levels? For me the CPAP has been the solution.

    Reality is that for many (including me) losing 50LBS (22.6 kilos for some lol)
    would probably cut the problem in half.

    BTW.....prior to my CPAP I have had the displeasure of waking up sitting straight up in bed, eyes wide open gasping for breathe with my heart beating like it was gonna come out of my chest.....that my friends feels like shit....
    and the former Mrs. Toolsteel V1.0 was not holding a pillow over my face...although for many reasons I am sure the thought had crossed her mind once or twice

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    I had a CPAP and took it back for a refund..I could never fall asleep with it. If I did, it was a very, very light sleep that would last 20 minutes. Never felt worse after a month of sleep deprivation...

    On the other hand, I knew a guy who used one. One morning he woke up early, took it off, then decided to go back to sleep a while. So he did, and he's still sleeping. After a week or so they moved him to a dirt motel.

    The best comment in this thread thus far is the observation that medical science is way behind the curve on this issue. A machine and mask? Really? Surely by now they would have come up with some operation or medication or something that treats the condition more permanently and 'closer to home' than that.


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