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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    Can someone explain to be why everyone doesn't use the nose type CPAP as opposed to the full nose/mouth types ? If for example you breath thru your mouth at all... the "pillow" type do nothing...do something that is better than nothing...or ? I'm guessing that the forced air thru the "nose only" type might lessen the instances of mouth opening ?
    I entered in to my in lab sleep study with a nasal pillow. My technician woke me up two hours in and made me change to a full face because it wasn't working. I sleep with my mouth open. Once I changed to full face, I slept solid.

    And it does blow by.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    I saw three ENT's until I found the right one, sounds like you should get a second opinion. I think some of them like to hang out in their office more than cutting on people.

    Your's couldn't be worse than this, the procedure increased my quality of life considerably:
    Mine isn't nearly that bad. He told me to quit taking antihistamines and man up and use nasal steroids even though they taste like ass. My quality of life changed for the better as well...generally doing what they tell you to do works like that. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickyb View Post
    Doctors do scare you into using a cpap. "She stops breathing 125 times per hour". I told him that is bull $&@!. That is just not happening. I stayed up most of the night to monitor it. Then he said " well it is a calculated rate extrapolated from the few minutes when it actually happens". "Most of the night it is not happening."

    That being said my wife uses the machine and sleeps extremely well now. Snoring has stopped and I can sleep now also. I was extremely sceptical at first but I'm a believer now.
    This is interesting. You claim (with justification) that the doc's statements were hyperbolic to scare your wife into using the CPAP, but then state that after using the CPAP her results are very good. you "are a believer now".

    I work with a guy who started a foundation to research systematic, effective cures for a cancer of children and young adults. The guy lost a sister to such a cancer. We worked to put together a computer program that would take treatments, apply them to a simulated patient, and would predict efficacy and adverse effects. It seemed logical to me. You get a timeline of the different treatments, and with that timeline the doc could also point out how miserable the chemo would make you at various times during the course of treatment. Before a lot of criticism rains down, this model was a demonstration of concept and was not ready for application to patients. We did it to see if we could do it. We could. (Now we have to work to get the model to be more accurate and predictive which is another whole lifetime of work).

    Anyway, I was talking to a childhood friend who's a doctor. I told him we had this demonstration program and looked forward to at some point seeing the tool available for docs and patients, so that they could predict adverse effects and efficacy, to choose between therapies (or palliative care). He said "I wouldn't want my patients to see that - they'd never choose therapy". Which I thought was interesting. With all the good will in the world, this (very smart, very caring) guy wouldn't want patients to know the truth because they would make decisions that (he felt) weren't optimal for them. This begs the question: if you knew that someone would make a poor decision based upon the truth, would you tell them the truth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    Can someone explain to be why everyone doesn't use the nose type CPAP as opposed to the full nose/mouth types ? If for example you breath thru your mouth at all... the "pillow" type do nothing...do something that is better than nothing...or ? I'm guessing that the forced air thru the "nose only" type might lessen the instances of mouth opening ?
    My wife tried the full face mask and couldn't sleep with it. She then tried the pillow type and liked them but if she opened her mouth while sleeping it sounded like someone deflating a air mattress. She eventually got used to sleeping with her mouth closed and the problem went away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    This is interesting. You claim (with justification) that the doc's statements were hyperbolic to scare your wife into using the CPAP, but then state that after using the CPAP her results are very good. you "are a believer now".

    I work with a guy who started a foundation to research systematic, effective cures for a cancer of children and young adults. The guy lost a sister to such a cancer. We worked to put together a computer program that would take treatments, apply them to a simulated patient, and would predict efficacy and adverse effects. It seemed logical to me. You get a timeline of the different treatments, and with that timeline the doc could also point out how miserable the chemo would make you at various times during the course of treatment. Before a lot of criticism rains down, this model was a demonstration of concept and was not ready for application to patients. We did it to see if we could do it. We could. (Now we have to work to get the model to be more accurate and predictive which is another whole lifetime of work).

    Anyway, I was talking to a childhood friend who's a doctor. I told him we had this demonstration program and looked forward to at some point seeing the tool available for docs and patients, so that they could predict adverse effects and efficacy, to choose between therapies (or palliative care). He said "I wouldn't want my patients to see that - they'd never choose therapy". Which I thought was interesting. With all the good will in the world, this (very smart, very caring) guy wouldn't want patients to know the truth because they would make decisions that (he felt) weren't optimal for them. This begs the question: if you knew that someone would make a poor decision based upon the truth, would you tell them the truth?
    Interesting. I am a mostly I don't much care if people are offended type of guy so I would definitely tell them the truth. A couple caveats - a young child NO, someone without mental capacity to understand NO, a close friend/relative that is actively dying NO

    Also, do you take into account like- this person has a 75% chance of dying, or not having very good results, so comfort should be goal one? Seems like an overly complicated question with no easy answers...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenton View Post
    My wife tried the full face mask and couldn't sleep with it. She then tried the pillow type and liked them but if she opened her mouth while sleeping it sounded like someone deflating a air mattress. She eventually got used to sleeping with her mouth closed and the problem went away.
    My experience was the same.
    It didn't take long to adjust

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    Have just spoken with my brother. He was in hospital for a couple of days (not recently) and had something done in his nose. Passage enlarged. It didn't help much.

    He was then given a mask and not only didn't he like it he says it didn't help much either. At least that's what his wife told him.

    I know for a fact that he still has a very loud snore and I pity his wife.

    Personally I think the worst snoring comes from people sleeping on their back rather than on their side.
    Last edited by Gordon B. Clarke; 08-06-2019 at 07:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I do know that the CPAP route appears to be a big scheme.

    Seems that everyone that goes for the sleep study fails it, even though
    everyone I know that has one said "I couldn't get any sleep in that lab"

    And I don't see anyone that uses one, get any of the benefits claimed (more restfull sleep, weight loss,
    better heart health)
    I have a friend who swears by his and believe me he has a very high stand for sleep. He will say he slept bad if he walks up once in 8hrs. As for me I am a poor sleeper beyond hope and there is no way I could sleep wearing a gas mask.

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    Quick
    (not really) snoring story.
    Years ago me and a couple buddies went duck hunting together. We had 2 tents....but it was fall and pretty chilly at night. The decision was made that we would set up the larger of the tents and all sleep in one....conserve some heat.
    I woke up the next morning around 4:30 AM and both my buddies were out by the fire. I got up and said....wow thanks for making the coffee what time did you guys wake up?....I was informed that they hadnt slept due to my $#%&*ing snoring.
    The 2nd night they set up the second tent about 50 yards away and did not extend an invitation lol......when I woke up the next day they had picked up their tent in the middle of the night and had relocated to about 100 yards away.
    With my CPAP....no issue....other than when not able to use it. Like when camping etc.....I always need to get my own camp site...lol

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    uvulopalatopharyngoplasty

    That's what I wanted. To get it I had to do the sleep study, dumb as you can't sleep with a strange place freezing with wires and tape. Study proved I had problems so they prescribed the CPAP which I said absolutely not. I want uvulopalatopharyngoplasty which works. Went to my doctor and he wouldn't approve. I had thoughts of a hot soldering iron to the back of the throat but damn you can't get opioids either.

    Then I read a study about shallow breathing people (me) that have prolonged life expectancy. I will try that, so far so good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JHOLLAND1 View Post
    against better judgment I comment here--
    I am ENT doc with 6000+ nasal--oral surgical airway interventions and offer the
    following:

    avoid implant gadgets--alloplastics--high failure and complication rates
    I am not sure what "alloplastics" are, is that in reference to plastic "oral appliances" which dentists use to shift your jaw position to allow better breathing? Or is that in reference to the new surgical implants?

    My very fit and athletic wife is currently trying out an plastic "oral appliances". Bringing a CPAP on backpacking trips was viewed as a problem. She had a hard time convincing her doctor to get a sleep study as she did not fit the usual characteristics. But I had observed her gasping at night and knew of the problem.

    One thing I am curious on, does the oral appliance need to eliminate all snoring or just the gasping for air? As originally fitted, the oral appliance reduced the snoring volume by 5x to 10x and I no longer hear any gasping for air. But the dentist believes that all snoring needs to be eliminated and keeps making adjustments. It makes me wonder what the end goal is. Or does one need to do another sleep study to confirm efficacy? On a good note, she does not wake up in the middle of the night nearly as much and is starting to feel more rested.

    Thanks

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    "[I am not sure what "alloplastics" are]"

    alloplastics in the context I note references implants into airway tissue--
    most commonly soft palate --of foreign material--some forms hydrolyze over months but many are permanent-- ie--teflon and meshes
    and if mesh becomes infected it must be surgically removed in a much more complicated process than insertion

    oral appliances typically are fashioned with intent of thrusting lower jaw forward ---and pulling base of tongue with it thus increasing cross sectional area for air flow to larynx--

    up to 2/3 of users of these devises do not use them long term
    your wifes response sounds favorable but specifics including pulse oxygen levels and cardiac activity are what docs reference for therapeutic assessment

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    There is a breathing technique called buteyko that has been reported to help with snoring. The technique aims to make calm and shallow breathing the default way one breathes. Heavy/hard breathing while sleeping can cause a suction effect in the throat that essentially closes off the airway during the inhale/exhale. Buteyko is said to eliminate that suction effect.

    From what I understand, with my pretty limited knowledge of yoga, is that a deep but slow inhale/exhale is the preferred breathing technique. I’m not sure if this would work as well as buteyko because of the longer duration on the inhale/exhale which to me, would make the suction effect in the throat more likely. Although, if you are inhaling/exhaling slowly then I could see that making the longer duration inhale/exhale a moot point for the throat suctioning up.

    I can see both methods of breathing working to stop the suction effect in the throat caused from faster/harder breathing. I will say though that for me, when I wake up feeling rested, I’m breathing pretty slow and shallow more like the buteyko method. I too am trying These yoga exercises for snoring methods before giving into the cpap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JHOLLAND1 View Post
    oral appliances typically are fashioned with intent of thrusting lower jaw forward ---and pulling base of tongue with it thus increasing cross sectional area for air flow to larynx--

    up to 2/3 of users of these devises do not use them long term
    your wifes response sounds favorable but specifics including pulse oxygen levels and cardiac activity are what docs reference for therapeutic assessment
    Since I started this topic I got a MAD (mandibular advancement device) custom fitted to my teeth via dentist molds made by Silent Night. Unlike generic devices such a Z Quiet it is more comfortable, no drooling, barely noticable in outward appearance and you can still talk without removing it. Also it is adjustable for lower jaw advancement. Works well enough that wife reports no, or very light, snorning now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    As for me I am a poor sleeper beyond hope and there is no way I could sleep wearing a gas mask.
    Pour yourself a couple glasses of some Gallo and lay down on the couch and watch a documentary show that you have seen 20 times before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yassine View Post
    From what I understand, with my pretty limited knowledge of yoga, is that a deep but slow inhale/exhale is the preferred breathing technique. I’m not sure if this would work as well as buteyko because of the longer duration on the inhale/exhale which to me, would make the suction effect in the throat more likely. Although, if you are inhaling/exhaling slowly then I could see that making the longer duration inhale/exhale a moot point for the throat suctioning up.
    Most people take short shallow breaths. A long deep inhale gets down into the belly part of the lungs. One inhale/exhale every 12 seconds. That's 6 seconds for inhale and 6 seconds for exhale.
    Last edited by rons; 03-29-2020 at 10:29 PM.

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    [QUOTE=Mtndew;3392710]I have one of those Zyppah mouthpieces. And it makes me drool something fierce!

    If you (like me) are over 65, the mouthpiece might not be the cause of the drooling.

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    When I got my first stent the doc recomended a sleep study.Like some mentioned the bed and room was terrible.No way could I sleep and wondered how they could get any meaningful results.

    Diagnosed with Apnea and was on the nose mask for over 15 years.I believed it helped,wife said I quit stopping breathing and snoring.

    About a year ago I began to not go to sleep with the mask on?Couldn't stand it.Asked my cardiologist and he recommended another sleep study.

    This was a proper bed and room;very comfortable and I slept most of the night.The results:a letter saying I might have a problem and need further study and consultation.
    I consider that BS,I either still have Apnea or not.I seem to sleep ok when I can finally go to sleep.I wonder if you can grow out of it?I'm not over weight but have lost about 10 lbs since I've been on Rapatha.

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    I have heard thre is a treatment where they implant electrodes in the throat and it automatically zaps the muscles when snoring starts. this tightens up the muscles so nothing flaps around in the breeze and snoring stops. It keeps the wind pipe open somehow.
    Bill D

    Intraoral electrical muscle stimulation in the treatment of snoring

    Inspire Sleep Apnea Innovation - Obstructive Sleep Apnea Treatment

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