Ot- do readers effect unaided focal length in our eyes- welding helmet magnifiers.
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  1. #1
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    Default Ot- do readers effect unaided focal length in our eyes- welding helmet magnifiers.

    So I’ve happily slogged through life so far without glasses or needing readers.

    So....

    It’s not like I couldn’t use them sometimes and tossed a pair of 2x magnifiers in the welding helmet.

    First time I put the helmet on I got that weird headache from eye strain but shouldered on and been doing LOTS of welding and now they feel quite normal.

    But the plot thickens- suddenly I feel like my unaided focal length has gone further out than it had been.

    So what’s the deal?
    It’s been a pet theory of mine that once in glasses a person is sort of stuck with them due to the eye training to the adjustment.

    What’s the deal here?

    I imagine focal length has something to do with muscles which control the eye shape which changes over time.
    (Read goes to crap..)

    Experiences?
    Am I just blearily staring at my phone this morning and this is all my imagination?

    Thanks

    Edit-
    I read my phone out about 14” so not out at arms length yet....

    ec5d9d71-3d7b-4bc5-91c2-fd9d557dbda4.jpg

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    As a spectacles wearer of over 50 years ;-

    My advice is to get your eyes tested / examined by a qualified ophthalmologist, - ask for the full works, …………………. ..just to check there are no underlying problems, with wither your eyes themselves or other parts of your body / organs - like heart and kidney's etc etc etc (the human body is a strange machine )


    FWIW I still have my eyes examined every 2 years.

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    I have had to use reading glasses for about 20 years now (68). Progresses from 1.5, 1.75, and 2. Last summer my eye doc said "your a handy guy. But a pair of 2.0 and a pair of 2.5 reading glasses. Take the 2 out of the left eye and replace it with a 2.5 lens". Eyes are fine for distance and no need to spend a lot of money having a prescription pair.
    I also have cheater lens in my welding helmets.

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    I will posit that it is the pile of welding you have been doing.
    Auto helmet? Check it is right

    I had better than 20/20 my whole life till suddenly not. Now I cannot live without readers. Started with needing light.Bringing a book over to the window to read etc.

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    Your brain adapts as well.
    I quit using a watchmaker's loupe and switched to an optivisor years ago because it takes a few minutes for sight to properly return to the unused eye. Too weird, I've since read that this is caused by ones brain shutting down the section dedicated to processing the closed eye and it takes a little while for everything to start working again properly.

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    Right now I'm using my # 1.75 reading glasses under the helmet when welding . I heard that you can get focal lenses
    for the helmet so I'm going to see if I can get a # 1.75 and # 2 lens for it.
    When welding outside and the sun is shining on the area I'm welding I can see much better what I'm doing.

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    Yes - auto helmet.
    It’s a decent helmet a Optrel evolution with the satellite auto cartridge in it and seems to be working fine.
    I bought the more expensive Optrel magnifier for it thinking they would do a decent job on the part and not have wonky distortion.

    It does help but I feel like i getting some eye strain- it could just be so much close work and the 2x cheaters have nothing to do with it.

    I’m doing a ton of aluminum tig welding- max at 175 amps.
    Lots of small fillet work- staring at a puddle as I cap outside corners etc- it’s all close work.

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    I have a couple good welding machines, and in past years I've been known as a decent welder....not certified by anyone but able to lay down a good bead and nothing ever came apart. But....I've evolved to where I don't do any welding I can avoid. In some cases, I drop stuff off at the local weld shop to have it done. I'm of the opinion that welding - even with a good helmet and gear - is one of life's heavy hitters when it comes to eyesight degradation. I once had a retired welder tell me "your eyes only have so many cones and rods, and they don't grow back".

    Unlike the average citizen, I was never a smoker or drinker or drug user and I never was attracted to fatty foods, late night partying, or having unprotected sex with male Nigerian prostitutes. But welding and spraying urethane paints - two things I would like to go back in time and not have done nearly as much of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    I have a couple good welding machines, and in past years I've been known as a decent welder....not certified by anyone but able to lay down a good bead and nothing ever came apart. But....I've evolved to where I don't do any welding I can avoid. In some cases, I drop stuff off at the local weld shop to have it done. I'm of the opinion that welding - even with a good helmet and gear - is one of life's heavy hitters when it comes to eyesight degradation. I once had a retired welder tell me "your eyes only have so many cones and rods, and they don't grow back".

    Unlike the average citizen, I was never a smoker or drinker or drug user and I never was attracted to fatty foods, late night partying, or having unprotected sex with male Nigerian prostitutes. But welding and spraying urethane paints - two things I would like to go back in time and not have done nearly as much of.

    Crap - what?

    I have decent gear and use it- this is not my trade so not a lifetime of exposure but really- eye structure being degraded by welding even with good helmet etc?

    The first survey thing I found:

    Is Welding Bad for the Eyes and How to Protect Yourself - Welding Insider

    I am becoming a decent tig man and want to use this capacity in shop as needed but don’t want to screw up my eyes either.

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    There is not much we can do to avoid the changes brought about in vision by advancing age. Somewhere in my 40’s, I observed that my arms were getting shorter, and became comfortable using prescription lenses with mild magnification. As I got older, more and more magnification was required. I settled on progressive lenses and was satisfied for a few years until my vision deteriorated badly. Cataracts! I had lens implant surgery, using the standard implants paid for by Medicare. I was able to see clearly again, but had a devil of a time in getting accustomed to having lenses with no accommodation in magnification. After fiddling with various magnifications in supplementary devices, I get along quite well. I just celebrated my 89th birthday, and have seen a lot go by. Be prepared for things to change as you get older, and be prepared to adjust to the changes. My wife has implant lenses due to cataracts. She had one eye set up for close up vision, and the other for distance. Her brain sorted out the differences in focus and she does well, requiring additional magnification for only the most exacting tasks. I assembled a pair of glasses for her with differing magnifications so that both eyes are focused together. These glasses are useful for close up seeing.

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    I know just what this is. For years I had a problem from working with an eye loupe and my eyes would go bonkers when I looked in the eye testing instruments in the pilot's medical. I finally found an ophthalmologist who had been a Navy doctor. It's called "instrument myopia" or in this case the opposite, "instrument hypermetropia". The Navy has a lot of people looking through telescopes and gun sights, etc., so it is more common there.

    What happens is that you adjust the focus by moving closer or farther away from the work. Your eyes drift out to a longer focal length and you move away to compensate. After a while you have trained your eyes to the longer focus and they want to stay there.

    My eyes have aged now, but at one time I had a large accommodation range, up close and farther than infinity. Working with a magnifier on my right eye and the other unused, my right eye would move to beyond infinity and would not focus on the real world. I did various experiments and pretty well understood the problem, but convincing an eye doctor was another thing. They invariably would say that I was getting older and would need glasses. Trying to explain was a waste of time. I told more than one that I didn't know a lot about eyes but I do know a fair amount about optics and could analyze the problem. Arguing with a doctor is about as rewarding as arguing with a rock.

    When I finally found the right doctor, he said "The Navy has known about it for years."

    BTW, Roger Bacon must have had the same condition. He would hold a positive lens up in front of an eye and could see details of distant objects. I think he was moving the eye's focus to beyond infinity, accomplishing the same thing as the negative lens in a Galilean telescope. Others who did not have the range could only see a blur and accused poor Roger of witchcraft.

    Try moving in as close to the work as you can and remain focused and see if that cures the problem.

    Bill

    P. S. Here is a link about instrument myopia. There are others.

    Instrument myopia - Wikipedia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    I imagine focal length has something to do with muscles which control the eye shape which changes over time.
    (Read goes to crap..)

    Experiences?
    There are eye exercises that you can do. Somebody I knew did them as assigned by a eye doctor. Some charts and glasses. Takes some time to see improvements.
    I'm not sure what you can figure out about these types of exercises by looking on the internet. A simple one I did when looking at computer screens was looking out
    a window and focusing on far away objects.

    Just a quick search
    Five Fast and Easy Eye Exercises That Can Improve Your VisionCheap Contact Lenses | Fast-Shipping | PerfectLensWorld

    For reading have you noticed that the more light there is the better it gets for reading. Can't do that with welding too long.

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    Back in my freshman physics c3the prof told us that there was once an experiment wherein subjects had glasses fitted with prisms which inverted the apparent image. Lo and behold after a few days everyone's brain adapted and suddenly everything looked right side up again. Then they had the subjects remove the glasses. Upside down again! After about the same delay, everyone's vision reverted to normal.

    The brain is highly adaptive.

    metalmagpie

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    “Instrument myopia”
    Interesting.


    I am welding again all today- I yanked the 2x magnifiers from the helmet.
    I have that feeling again this morning from them like I just put on someone else’s glasses- weird headache from eyestrain.

    Maybe 2x is just too much.
    I really put them in to buy my way into better welding.
    I think I can get by now that I am up to speed.

    Edit-

    No lens in the helmet and I can’t see crap.
    Lens back in and I popped two Advil.

    Maybe I am coming down with Corona virus.
    Or the one beer last night was too much, or too little..

    Thanks guys.

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    The eye is focused (accommodation) by muscles. The muscles are just like any other muscle in your body. They respond to exercise and stretching.

    Do some of each (As suggested above)

    And yes, you can "turn up the lights" safely while welding, by turning down the shade. The better lens systems are BETTER".

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    I cannot say welding is bad for your eyes, but I do have two data points

    My favorite welder is blind as a tick, has no idea who I am from across the room

    I discovered that I have a minor blind spot dead ahead. When in a room at the very edge of dark visibility, I mean, right at the hairy edge of being able to see anything, straight ahead is blind, off to the side is visible. Like a big floating blotch in front of me.

    Either that or we have ghosts

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    Something not yet mentioned to assist in seeing while welding is you can shine bright lights on the weld area. Be sure they are in front of you, light coming in the back of your hood and reflecting off the inside of the lens is not helpful. Brightly lit weld area was the hot ticket before auto darkening hoods became affordable, with enough light you do not need to lift your hood to see what is on the table. Not well, but good enough to move parts around and get to the next joint.

    Eye color also has to do with sensitivity to light, lighter eyes are more sensitive than darker ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    I discovered that I have a minor blind spot dead ahead. When in a room at the very edge of dark visibility, I mean, right at the hairy edge of being able to see anything, straight ahead is blind, off to the side is visible.
    You just 'discovered' the fovea.

    Fovea centralis - Wikipedia

    You have hardly any rods in the fovea, mostly cones. Edge of dark visibility means you are relying on rod cells.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    I discovered that I have a minor blind spot dead ahead. When in a room at the very edge of dark visibility, I mean, right at the hairy edge of being able to see anything, straight ahead is blind, off to the side is visible. Like a big floating blotch in front of me.
    That sounds like macular degeneration to me, have you had it checked out?

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    1 - 2.0 is way to much for a first step.
    2 - Seeing an eye Dr for a lookover is a very good idea in general.

    Low light conditions open your iris, decreasing your depth of field focus, same as a film camera. That means something that was on the closer edge of your field of focus is no longer in focus when your pupils are larger. A cheater lens brings the field of focus closer to you but doesn't make it larger(deeper, broader). (Probably makes it smaller, I don't have proof of that ATM) 2.0 probably brings it so close that your welding is at the farther edge of the field so your eyes are trying to lengthen your focus, which they can't do, and that's why they hurt.

    You need lenses that put the center of your field of focus on your work,
    Go to the Dollar Tree and spend $4 on cheaters, get 1.0(if you can) 1.25, 1.50, and 1.75 and try them under your helmet. Try them without the helmet first and see which ones seem best for bench work. You can pair them up also, 1.0 and 1.5 = 2.5 diopter, sort of.

    I use cheaters like some folks use a magnifier visor, have pairs of several diopters laying all around the shop and office and vehicles and carry them with me at all times. I'm slightly farsighted so I use 1.0 to drive, 2.5 or 2.75 for computer and reading and both together for closeup and for TIG, If the diopter is too high, you can put your face closer to the work to see if that makes it clearer.

    I recently Tigged on a broken 4-40 screw to remove it and the hardest part of the job was pairing up the helmet and the glasses to see it to do the job, I had every helmet and lens in the shop out, found some I had forgotten about.

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