OT: Ever Given

jmead · Mar 26, 2021

Interesting discussion between ocean shipping vets, potential causes, supply chain implications, and all that happy stuff.
Clearly will be felt globally.

https://youtu.be/8yWJ1Vs2aW4

Booze Daily · Mar 26, 2021

Hard to imagine how big this is. Or how stuck.

JS · Mar 26, 2021

Maybe there was an error in judgment.......

Just a little........

Mud · Mar 26, 2021

..........

DDoug · Mar 26, 2021

JS said:
Maybe there was an error in judgment.......

Just a little........

Yup, posting a title like that.....

gbent · Mar 26, 2021

Captain Nicholas Sloan, who led the Costa Concordia salvage in 2013, mentioned in a youtube interview the new low sulfur fuel requirements for ocean vessels is causing reliability problems with those engines. Those of us with diesels here on land have been fighting those problems for over 10 years.

cyanidekid · Mar 26, 2021

gbent said:
Captain Nicholas Sloan, who led the Costa Concordia salvage in 2013, mentioned in a youtube interview the new low sulfur fuel requirements for ocean vessels is causing reliability problems with those engines. Those of us with diesels here on land have been fighting those problems for over 10 years.

no mention of any engine problems leading to this, in fact operator reports all mechanical systems in order, for what that's worth. sand storm and wind gusts seem to have likely contributed, just look at the sail area of this vessel.

rabler · Mar 26, 2021

cyanidekid said:
no mention of any engine problems leading to this, in fact operator reports all mechanical systems in order, for what that's worth. sand storm and wind gusts seem to have likely contributed, just look at the sail area of this vessel.

I wonder if they limit speed in the canal. Given that they convoy to swutch direction I would imagine they must. And with reduced speed comes reduced rudder effectiveness.

Superbowl · Mar 26, 2021

The reports are that there were very high winds when she went a ground.

GregSY · Mar 26, 2021

They note that the ship is larger than an aircraft carrier (which has a crew of 5,000) and is crewed by less than 30 people.

They also note the crews are overworked and never given enough time off....and I am sure spend half their time doped up and drunk.

Go figure.

cyanidekid · Mar 26, 2021

rabler said:
I wonder if they limit speed in the canal. Given that they convoy to swutch direction I would imagine they must. And with reduced speed comes reduced rudder effectiveness.

a quick search comes up with the canal authority saying 16KPH, and also that the Ever Given has 2 bow thrusters of 3,400 HP each.

even a total main engine failure seems unlikely to me to have been the main cause, but im not a super container skipper. it clearly had some momentum when it plowed 40+ feet deep into the sand, and given the low speed, the ability to respond to rudder input would have been limited, I'd think. even 6800 HP of electrically driven bow thruster powered by 8 aux. generators might not have been enough to counter the drift from the crosswind by the time they noticed the deviation from center channel in a sandstorm, and were locked into a groove in the sloping bank.

cyanidekid · Mar 26, 2021

GregSY said:
They note that the ship is larger than an aircraft carrier (which has a crew of 5,000) and is crewed by less than 30 people.

They also note the crews are overworked and never given enough time off....and I am sure spend half their time doped up and drunk.

Go figure.

it was under the helm command of 2 canal pilots at the time of the grounding, according to a news report.

seiner · Mar 26, 2021

My little boat, 50' 200000lbs has a 60hp 24' did bow thruster with is quite large for that size vessel. The effectiveness of bow thrusters decreases rapidly as the speed increases. At speeds much above 3kts my thruster is almost useless, below that it is very effective. Something else to consider is the bank effect. When ships travel near banks the pressure wave off of the bow will not be able to dissipate do to the bank and it can push the ship off course and into the opposite lane of a canal or perhaps the opposite bank. The same thing can happen between ships in the open. Passing another ship going the opposite direction in a canal is a game of chicken where each pilot aims for the opposing ship and relies on the pressure wave to force the ships apart. It's not a game for the feint of heart.

cyanidekid said:
a quick search comes up with the canal authority saying 16KPH, and also that the Ever Given has 2 bow thrusters of 3,400 HP each.

even a total main engine failure seems unlikely to me to have been the main cause, but im not a super container skipper. it clearly had some momentum when it plowed 40+ feet deep into the sand, and given the low speed, the ability to respond to rudder input would have been limited, I'd think. even 6800 HP of electrically driven bow thruster powered by 8 aux. generators might not have been enough to counter the drift from the crosswind by the time they noticed the deviation from center channel in a sandstorm, and were locked into a groove in the sloping bank.

DavidScott · Mar 26, 2021

cyanidekid said:
it was under the helm command of 2 canal pilots at the time of the grounding, according to a news report.

I knew the canal pilots were a necessity, I wonder if they get the blame? And I thought a 50,000lb dozer was daunting to get out of a mud bog! It would be something to see in person. I am sure pictures do not do the scale justice.

JS · Mar 27, 2021

Trboatworks · Mar 27, 2021

I was going along in the intercostal waterway which for my size ship is about equivalent to the situation here.
We had just grilled up some salmon and I turned the auto pilot on to take us clean and center down the 'ditch'.
Well not having any good sense I put my fork down on the little helm station too near the below decks fluxgate compass so I could grab my beer.

Wow- the compass saw that bit of steel- tossed the helm over hard and we ran straight into the bank so hard I thought we would toss the masts right out of her.
I remember there was a small boy wading in the shallows right there and the only reason we didn't run him down was the bottom came up so fast that we ran right out of water..
That bank was so steep in fact and we didn't have a million tons behind us to drive a furrow in that we just bounced right off and carried on (with autopilot off...).

So in my experience the bastards were probably having a nice bit of salmon on the barbie and things got out of hand..

john.k · Mar 27, 2021

I see on telly there is now a big cutter suction dredger there and half a dozen tugs....so shouldnt take long to free up.

Trboatworks · Mar 27, 2021

The problem is they are burning time just screwing around- there is land RIGHT there.

Cables brought to bear will drag that SOB back into the clear water.
The only thing stopping them - well might be attachments and the real chance the engineers figure too much force could tear the hull open.
I would love to be a fly on the wall with the engineers talking over how to get this mess set to rights.

But screw dicking around with tugs- set hard points ashore and rig the damn cables- she will move that is certain.

michiganbuck · Mar 27, 2021

It was stated a 35 mile an hour wind and a sand storm occurred, so the skipper could do nothing to save the ship.

The real dummies are the guys who are making big bucks from charging for passage and not putting anchor stations along the canal so ships that are in it might tie off during a wind storm. Land-bound posts. Yes, they would hold to the side, not to the canal bottom. a line to the bow and one to the stern. Perhaps a mile apart to secure the number of ships that might be in the passage.

$300 to $400 thousand for about 100 miles of travel and no safety tie-off is a joke.

The vacuum to being stuck could cause the ship to tear apart with just trying to pull the ship out, perhaps you could do that pulling forward ao aft but not likely.

Possible 150 feet to stuck is not much safety with a hard Windward on such a large ship..even side thrusters would be little help.

cyanidekid · Mar 27, 2021

michiganbuck said:
It was stated a 35 mile an hour wind and a sand storm occurred, so the skipper could do nothing to save the ship.

The real dummies are the guys who are making big bucks from charging for passage and not putting anchor stations along the canal so ships that are in it might tie off during a wind storm. Yes, they would hold to the side, not to the canal bottom. a line to the bow and one to the stern. Perhaps a mile apart to secure the number of ships that might be in the passage.

$300 to $400 thousand for about 100 miles of travel and no safety tie-off is a joke.

The vacuum to being stuck could cause the ship to tear apart with just trying to pull the ship out, perhaps you could do that pulling forward ao aft but not likely.

Possible 150 feet to stuck is not much safety with a hard Windward on such a large ship..even side thrusters would be little help.

“Ever Given” is the ship’s name, so it couldn’t be more related.

Otherwise, quite agree there is absolutely no way to “just pull her out”!
The big suction dredges are key, it might work.

I think the real question isn’t “how did this happen” but “how DIDN’T it happen a lot sooner?”, given the narrow channel and the huge vessels with their mass and sail area.

OT: Ever Given

Hot Rolled

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Attachments

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Cast Iron

Hot Rolled

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Titanium

Cast Iron

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Stainless

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Titanium

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