OT-Fish tape Question

magneticanomaly · Jan 17, 2018

My dad taught me electrical wiring. We used fish tapes often, re-wiring old houses, the flat spring wire type in a springy sheet-metal reel. Pulled the tape out between the lips and wound it back in the same way. Never a problem.

Years ago, after my dad was gone, I lent one of our tapes to a friend, who broke it, and bought me a slick new plastic-housing 200 ft Greenlee, model 430-20, very nearly like this one Greenlee 438-1 Steel Fish Tape 2 “x 1/8" Greenlee Textron | eBay

It is a pain to use. The tape inside tends to get a later layer under an earlier, and then I cannot pull it out. Recently I took it all apart, (BOOM, a huge tangle!) completely untangled and straightened the tape(took an hour), and tried to re-load it. When I just pushed it in with the handle, the tape all stacked near the outside diameter, and about half would not fit. So I pulled it all back out, and wound it in under tension......it wound in a single file like a phonograph record groove, , and again would not all fit. Eventually I got it all in by again winding under tension but poking the tape through the holes in the sides of the case as it wound so as to distribute it across the width of the drum..
What am I doing wrong? Is there a trick to using this style? Is there a problem with this model? I think maybe so, because in looking at 222 of them for sale on e-bay I saw not one exactly like mine. I e-mailed Greenlee Tech Supporrt with this question, and got
"Hello,

Try to do with the help of two person. One hold the reel and other hold the tap and do it slowly.

Thanks",

Monarchist · Jan 17, 2018

magneticanomaly said:
My dad taught me electrical wiring. We used fish tapes often, re-wiring old houses, the flat spring wire type in a springy sheet-metal reel. Pulled the tape out between the lips and wound it back in the same way. Never a problem.

Years ago, after my dad was gone, I lent one of our tapes to a friend, who broke it, and bought me a slick new plastic-housing 200 ft Greenlee, model 430-20, very nearly like this one Greenlee 438-1 Steel Fish Tape 2 “x 1/8" Greenlee Textron | eBay

It is a pain to use. The tape inside tends to get a later layer under an earlier, and then I cannot pull it out. Recently I took it all apart, (BOOM, a huge tangle!) completely untangled and straightened the tape(took an hour), and tried to re-load it. When I just pushed it in with the handle, the tape all stacked near the outside diameter, and about half would not fit. So I pulled it all back out, and wound it in under tension......it wound in a single file like a phonograph record groove, , and again would not all fit. Eventually I got it all in by again winding under tension but poking the tape through the holes in the sides of the case as it wound so as to distribute it across the width of the drum..
What am I doing wrong? Is there a trick to using this style? Is there a problem with this model? I think maybe so, because in looking at 222 of them for sale on e-bay I saw not one exactly like mine. I e-mailed Greenlee Tech Supporrt with this question, and got
"Hello,

Try to do with the help of two person. One hold the reel and other hold the tap and do it slowly.

Thanks",

Steel tape - still have one, nickel-plated spring covers as your old one seems - was fine for a sparkie who could lock-out the whole damned work zone.

I QUIT using mine whilst installing CAT-wotever or ARCnet coax - forgotten which - area 'lectricity live, when the bugger followed a power wire right into a box, got onto a bare screw-terminal, and lighted up its tip at one end, and my arse at the other - with AC mains power down its conductive length!

Now I use those jointed orange FRP wands. Rather better insulators and one just uncouples 'em for storage in a length of cheap PVC pipe or conduit.

What you are "doing wrong" is not pitching that silly tape in the garbidge instead of wasting any more of your life on it.

"Justice" would otherwise see you make a present of it back to the perpetrator and let HIM suffer for his sins.

2CW

Larry Dickman · Jan 17, 2018

I've got a couple of the Greenlees, and I've had much of the same problems. I prefer to just use a 1/4 nylon rope.

jim rozen · Jan 17, 2018

Larry Dickman said:
I've got a couple of the Greenlees, and I've had much of the same problems. I prefer to just use a 1/4 nylon rope.

I own two fish tapes but in my house (plaster and lath walls) I've found that ships chain does a better job being fed downward
without snagging on the plaster clinchers inside the wall.

Bobw · Jan 17, 2018

When I was 12 or so, I chopped up my Dad's fish tape to make a bunch of tip ups... He was
not happy with me.

HT Explorer Wood Stick Tip-Up (With Metal Spool, Drag, Line) | DICK'S Sporting Goods

garyhlucas · Jan 17, 2018

Those round metal or plastic enclosures always sucked. Being older than you, and maybe your dad too we didn't have such contraptions for fish tapes. What we did have was a 1 foot section of the bare metal flexible conduit about 1-1/2" diameter, which for the life of me can't remember what it was called. You put one turn through it and taped it with electrical tape so there was no loose end, Then using two hands you simply slide the flex tubing along coiling up the fish. We had 18 electricians and every truck had a 200 footer, a 100 footer, and a fifty footer. Try it you'll like it.

When I was about ten my dad asked me to uncoil a new 200 footer and put it in the flexible pipe. Like you it went BOING! and I spent the next 2 hours untangling it!

ewlsey · Jan 17, 2018

I bought a nice Klein tape that is graduated in feet like a really crude tape measure. It's great for me. I push it through the conduit and I can measure how much wire I need. Cut the wire and attach to the tape and pull it back through.

Of course a real electrician just hooks up 5 or 10 spools of wire and pulls as much as he wants. But, that's pretty spendy for pretend electrician like me.

Monarchist · Jan 17, 2018

ewlsey said:
I bought a nice Klein tape that is graduated in feet like a really crude tape measure. It's great for me. I push it through the conduit and I can measure how much wire I need. Cut the wire and attach to the tape and pull it back through.

Of course a real electrician just hooks up 5 or 10 spools of wire and pulls as much as he wants. But, that's pretty spendy for pretend electrician like me.

Thanks for that. I shall mark my "rods".

Small enough place I usually have wire enough to "pretend better", and not often in conduit. Yet it aggravates me to find I've pulled more footage than needed, too often have just cut off the surplus to save time of the trip for pull back.

jdsmith · Jan 17, 2018

I have the same tape you do as well as a similar shorter one (50 ft?) and a longer coiled up nylon fish tape. I also have the FRP fish rods for shorter distances.

I’ve only used the first 80 ft or so of the long steel greenlee tape, and the entire length of the short steel tape. Just worked the green part around with one hand while holding the black handle and never had any problems. The 200 ft nylon tape is slippery enough to roll back up the same way.

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EPAIII · Jan 17, 2018

I have never had a Greenlee. I just buy what is available at the local home supply/hardware places. I have never had that problem.

Perhaps Greenlee has overthought this.

Tony Quiring · Jan 17, 2018

The plastic ones work great for short or curvy runs but they suck if trying to push disyance.

You likely ate not winding correctly.

We have never had issues with any of ours.

Simply put do NOT touch the "tape"

Hold the handle with one hand and turn the spool with the other so the spool does the work.

The handle slot for the tape will place tension or drag on the tape causing it to stack properly inside.

Unroll it completely and pull it straight to allow it to unwind it's stresses then do as advised and it should wind right up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

Chip Chester · Jan 17, 2018

So... hold the handle with left hand, reach in case hole and spin case pulling toward you with right hand in quarter-turn increments, from 9:00 to 12:00? Has worked well for 30-some years... Or am I doing it wrong?

That said, I would rather throw one away than take it apart and un-tangle it! For that, you have my respect.

Pull out by holding handle still, and pulling tape. No need to touch reel.

Chip

kb0thn · Jan 17, 2018

I have the same Greenlee and it sucks ... big time. Thought I was dumb and messed it up. Bought another. It sucks too. I *was* dumb ... for buying another crappy Greenlee that I knew sucked. My second one never went back into the reel, but it quasi useful when used a loose coil. Makes me nervous however, because it always wants to spring open. I worry that it will do that into a live panel.

I've tried a bunch of different tapes and right now my preferred tape for most applications is a coated wire. This one:
Ideal 31-92 Tuff-Grip Zoom Fish Tapes with Eyelet End Type, 1' Length: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
It will follow an empty conduit nicely. But you can't push on it very well. Definitely not for fishing through a wall. Or even a conduit with lots of bends. But works awesome for big empty new conduits.

Have Klein and Ideal steel fish tapes now. They seem to jam less than the Greenlee. But they all do, to some degree or another. I think some lubrication would probably help. I don't think the water based wire pulling lube does good things for them.

Harbor Freight has a little 25' coiled piece of Nylon. Actually works quite well. Bought a bunch of them and leave them at my sites. I also end up flying around in helicopters and get limited weight for tools. Carrying the few ounces of nylon is better than a few pounds of steel.

-Jim

magneticanomaly · Jan 18, 2018

Thanks, all, for the helpful and sometimes sympathetic replies. I use mine these days as often for snaking or probing pipes as fishing wires. Never had to fish through a conduit alongside live conductors, but I will remember now not to. I did notice when looking on Greenlee's site that they no longer sell this model.

comstockfriend · Jan 18, 2018

I had a rusty steel tape. Put it in a bucket of Phoshield to 'clean it up'. When I went to pull it out 15 minutes later, there wasn't a piece longer than 3 inches!

Pete Deal · Jan 18, 2018

I have one of those and never had a bit of trouble with it. Are you pulling wire by pulling on the plastic housing? I never do. I strip out what I need and pull on the metal tape then wind it up, pull some more on the steel tape, then wind it up. Never had a tangle inside.

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