OT Found a good deal on a Kohler 25....NOT!

moonlight machine · May 7, 2015

I'v been on the lookout for a Kohler Command Pro 25 for my big mower. There are not many good used ones around so when I see one advertised used, runs good for 350.00 I was all over it. It was about 100 miles away, that sucks but if it runs good..... So I call the guy about it, he says yep it runs good.... I say I want to hear it run for 5 minutes or so, warm it up, make sure it idles and revs up ok. He says fine, no problem. I call him a day later and he he had it running on carb cleaner, just give it a squirt every few seconds...... I say no, I want to hear it run on gas. I call a day later, does it run on gas, Yep, it runs good! So I drive down to get it. When I get there I have him start it, It fires right up but is clearly only running on 1 cylinder and is spewing engine oil out the exhaust. He says yep runs good! I pull the plug wire off the dead cylinder, no change in idle speed. Shut it off I said and pull the spark plug. The plug is dripping oil and the side electrode is smashed up inside the plug along side the center electrode, I put my finger over the plug hole and spin it over. No compression, I put a long screw driver in the plug Hole...No piston! Yep...Runs good!!! Who is the low price seller of Kohler engines?

Zonko · May 7, 2015

So somebody goes to the trouble of disassembling an engine to remove the piston and putting it back together - just so he can commit fraud. Wow, just wow, that is.....dumb.

metalmaster10 · May 7, 2015

Since most of those engines are coming off commercial mowers.... Good luck!
I bought a used exmark with that same engine. Made a few calls first. Service guys told me they usually see an average of 3,000 on them before needing replaced. Close to the same on the hydrostatic drives if maintained... So, you might find someone who blew out the hydros at 2,600 hrs and decided not to repair... Then you end up with the near dead engine you just looked at.
I called about mower, guy says 2 yrs old, EFI. I get there its 5 years old, carbureted! Still a good machine, no need to lie about it.... :wall:

moonlight machine · May 7, 2015

No, a lot of the piston was in the muffler, lots of small pieces

Zonko · May 7, 2015

moonlight machine said:
No, a lot of the piston was in the muffler, lots of small pieces

Ouch, that makes more sense. I assumed he had actually removed the remains of the blown piston himself...you know...like normal people. Looks like the engine did that for him.

How convenient. A self repairing engine that will remove faulty parts itself. Shouldve bought it, man.

akajun · May 7, 2015

I just bought a 19 hp from these people, but it was way cheaper that what you need. Anyway, here is the link , they also sell short blocks, maybe you can get that busted engine and not come out too bad.
Engines

steve45 · May 7, 2015

The Surplus Center has some engines: Surplus Center

I would not go with the Courage engine, they've had a lot of problems.

I'd go with a Kawasaki.

alonzo83 · May 7, 2015

I have been on the hunt for a 20 hp horizontal for a while. It is hard to find a good small engine with any life left in it.

I am going to get a honda from northern tool. Cheapest I have found so far.

WizardOfBoz · May 7, 2015

I just went car shopping. I am perplexed by one of the same things we read here. You can buy a new command pro 25 for a little less than $2k. One at Surplus Center is available for $1049. Engines this big are used by commercial mowers who run the things 60 hrs/week for 4-6 months of the year. So they blow through 2000 or 3000 hours in four years. Then they sell the nearly blown engines to a willing market. Given that $350 is apparently a great deal, let's assume folks willingly pay a bit more: $500 or $600. For an engine with no life left! The market apparently focuses on the hulk of the thing, and not the value it can deliver. Obviously that $350 engine is worth only scrap value. By the time you bore and hone the bad cylinder (if indeed it can be repaired) you're gonna have, what, $1000 into the thing? Not worth it.

The car analogy is this: Mileage is not adequately accounted for. You can pay $29,000 for a 2012 Toyota Highlander LE Plus with $38,000 miles. Or, $31,500 for a 2014 edition of the same model with 11,000 miles. If wear and tear were adequately accounted for, I would thing the former would be lower or the latter higher. This is the "hulk" theory: Folks place an anchor value on a specific thing based upon the "new" price, regardless of whether or not the condition of the thing is new or "hulk".

Given that Surplus Center has a new 25 HP vertical shaft Kohler for $1049 and I'm guessing a worn-out blown used one is going to cost you $600, and maintenance and lack of reliability of the used one may knock you out of service for a time with the used one, it seems to be to be a no-brainer to get the new setup. Provided you have the means.

On edit: maybe I'm overstating the case: the surplus center engine is a Command, not a Command Pro (larger oil filter, air filter, bigger cooling fan, fancy spark plugs, and the all important yellow filler caps on the Pro).

metalmaster10 · May 7, 2015

Surplus has a 9.5 hp/ 14.5 tq Briggs for $299.... You could get 2 of those. If that wasn't quite enough, get another one. Look like a little version of an outlaw pulling tractor

Weirsdale George · May 7, 2015

Just for grins, try your local lawn mower dealer. I needed an 18HP Kohler and my local shop ordered one a couple hundred dollars cheaper with free shipping than what I could find on the web!

moonlight machine · May 7, 2015

bosleyjr said:
I just went car shopping. I am perplexed by one of the same things we read here. You can buy a new command pro 25 for a little less than $2k. One at Surplus Center is available for $1049. Engines this big are used by commercial mowers who run the things 60 hrs/week for 4-6 months of the year. So they blow through 2000 or 3000 hours in four years. Then they sell the nearly blown engines to a willing market. Given that $350 is apparently a great deal, let's assume folks willingly pay a bit more: $500 or $600. For an engine with no life left! The market apparently focuses on the hulk of the thing, and not the value it can deliver. Obviously that $350 engine is worth only scrap value. By the time you bore and hone the bad cylinder (if indeed it can be repaired) you're gonna have, what, $1000 into the thing? Not worth it.

The car analogy is this: Mileage is not adequately accounted for. You can pay $29,000 for a 2012 Toyota Highlander LE Plus with $38,000 miles. Or, $31,500 for a 2014 edition of the same model with 11,000 miles. If wear and tear were adequately accounted for, I would thing the former would be lower or the latter higher. This is the "hulk" theory: Folks place an anchor value on a specific thing based upon the "new" price, regardless of whether or not the condition of the thing is new or "hulk".

Given that Surplus Center has a new 25 HP vertical shaft Kohler for $1049 and I'm guessing a worn-out blown used one is going to cost you $600, and maintenance and lack of reliability of the used one may knock you out of service for a time with the used one, it seems to be to be a no-brainer to get the new setup. Provided you have the means.

On edit: maybe I'm overstating the case: the surplus center engine is a Command, not a Command Pro (larger oil filter, air filter, bigger cooling fan, fancy spark plugs, and the all important yellow filler caps on the Pro).

The Surplus Center engine is a 23 hp, not a 25 hp, the best price I have found so far on a 25 is around 1600.00. Also the 23 has no oil cooler, the 25 does.

WizardOfBoz · May 7, 2015

Yeah, I noticed that after I posted it. Wish it were what you wanted. But here's a question: what are the prices you are seeing for "good" used 25 hp command pros? Given that these are wear items (that is one wears out an engine, but keeps the mower and tries to find a replacement engine) shouldn't we expect nearly zero used engines to be available? Or, as you found, dual cylinder model repurposed as single cylinders?

And if you do find one that is in good shape, I bet the owner will want $1400 for it. "Hey! A new one costs $2000!" he'll say. Finding a good, used motor should be expected to be nearly impossible. The good ones are in mowers, running. The used ones were in mowers, running, until they stopped running, at which point they became "used"!

I do hope that you can find the engine you need.

bridgedog · May 7, 2015

I have to agree there is no reason to have a good used motor not in a good used mower. I recently rebuilt my 25 hp Kohler with new bore, pistons, valve job and ground the crank with oversize bores in the case with new bushings. Total cost $655. Resizing the rods for the undersize crank was the only pain in the ass. Grinding the crank was the first and only time I used my toolpost grinder for a worthwhile project.

CalG · May 7, 2015

The garden tractor has a K 582. Parts are dear, but fortunately this engine is running strong. I'm trying to keep the oil up to snuff.

If it goes, I'm think about looking for a BMW K75, three cylinder motor bike engine.

The PTO would be a bitch, but the sound of that three cylinder would be worth it.

Plus, It just might make 25 HP at 3600 rpm ;-)

WizardOfBoz · May 8, 2015

Plus, well, you'd have the only BMW tractor around.

bridgedog, I don't suppose you took any pics of the process. That sounds interesting. For $700 you end up with an engine that is pretty near new (or maybe even better).

I grew working in my Dad's old machine shop. We made heavy duty (DeVere-Locke, if anyone remembers) mowers. Walk-behinds. Steel decks were (IIRC) somewhere between 6 gauge and 1/4 inch thick. I recall that we used 18HP Wisconsin and Kohler engines on a 24 inch mower. You could take down saplings with the thing.

I got to snag castings, degrease stuff (with the old "mystic bog" carbon tet degreaser), paint decks that weighed several hundred pounds (a paint booth is a darned nice thing to have!). Good times.

BTW, bridgedog, before my Dad had the shop, he was VP of Sales and Marketing at DuMore. Is your TPG a Dumore?

moonlight machine · May 8, 2015

There are no used Kohler V twins around, I have been watching for one for a year or so. That's why I was all over that used one when it turned up. I think I will just bite the bullet and spend the 16-1700.00 for a new one.

Bill D · May 8, 2015

If it goes, I'm think about looking for a BMW K75, three cylinder motor bike engine.

You do know that Porsche was the number one small diesel tractor sold in Europe for decades like the 1950's-60's?
Bill D.

Porsche Super - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WizardOfBoz · May 8, 2015

moonlight machine said:
There are no used Kohler V twins around, I have been watching for one for a year or so. That's why I was all over that used one when it turned up. I think I will just bite the bullet and spend the 16-1700.00 for a new one.

I just had to buy a new (well, used) car. And it's painful to open up the wallet. But there is a satisfaction at having a new vehicle. And some comfort in knowing you won't have to do that for a while again.

CalG · May 8, 2015

bosleyjr said:
Plus, well, you'd have the only BMW tractor around.

Snip

I all ready have a Lamborghini . A BMVay would be fitting

Well, A SL&H SAME Lamborghini & Hurlimann

Google Image Result for http://www.gohardy.com/francais/images/chargeurs_compact/gc1.jpg

This one is the Hurlimann badged unit...

OT Found a good deal on a Kohler 25....NOT!

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