OT: German Vodaphone in Italy?

WizardOfBoz · May 21, 2012

Ok, I was in Germany last summer (Heidelberg is awesome, and I got to eat dinner in the castle and saw the "Heidelberg tun*). Bought a Vodafone and a German SIM card. I will be in Italy in a couple weeks (Venice, I know, my life sucks) and want to know if I can use the locked German Vodafone in Italy. In other words, will a German locked vodaphone accept an Italian SIM card, or do I need to use another phone?

A separate question is about Verizon (my carrier). I have a GSM phone (Droid RAZR) with a US SIM. I know I can buy European service from Verizon, but it's insanely expensive, like a Euro a minute. Has anyone figured out a cheaper way to use Verizon in Europe? I have no problem paying for service, but it seems that the mobile companies realize that I can use Skype for most calls and they are going to ream me for using my handset. The other business model would be to price minutes low enough so that I used the thing a lot and didn't hate Verizon, but I guess that's a decision better made by some flippin' 27 year old MBA at Verizon than me, a mere customer.

Last, can I set up a local Italian number via Skype so that I can use the mobile to call a local Italian number and have that relay home to the states, without the international charges?

Any and all advice appreciated.

Jim

*A big carved oak wine cask. Actually, the worlds largest. It built in 1751 from the trunks of 130 oak trees and has a capacity of 58,124 gallons. It is 28 feet deep by 23 feet high. The balustraded platform on top was built as a dance floor.

WizardOfBoz · May 21, 2012

Thanks, Gordo.

Is it that easy to get a phone unlocked? Vodafone doesn't seem very forthcoming with the unlock codes.

Jim

PS I'm a strong swimmer, so I should be able to drink what I want. :cheers:

Chip Chester · May 21, 2012

Things to look out for -- although from TMobile, not Vodaphone. Traveled in England, France and Germany a few years ago. Obtained new TMo prepaid sims for a couple phones while in England, with the understanding they could be "topped up" at many places as required. And, that they would function well in France and Germany, too. Good to go, I thought, and not terribly expensive. Well, the rude awakening was that places to "top up" in France were non-existant at the time, except for the airport. And when trying to do it by phone, we were informed that they could only do that if we were using a bank card issued in Europe -- not our Chase "World" MasterCard from the States. Any of this disclosed on the paperwork or website? Not a chance. The fact of my 10-year relationship with TMo US had no bearing, since they were "different companies." Calls to Chase resulted in, "They better take it, if they have a MasterCard logo." But after pushing that up the phone tree for an afternoon, I decided not to waste any more of my decennial vacation on that crap. But the necessary phone, text, and email communications back to the States was not cheap thru TMo US.

Bottom line is, local "prepaid" voice and data was cheaper than stateside forwarding, but more aggravating. I'll do it differently next visit, for sure. If I'll be there for "awhile", I'll either get a bunch more minutes, or set up an actual account with a Euro contact, and do business as a local, not a tourist.

Chip

WizardOfBoz · May 21, 2012

Thanks, Chip. Yeah, I lucked out in Germany. I was there with a friend and colleague (a raised-in-the-US-born-in-Germany gal) and we went to the vodafone store. I got a phone for 33 Euro. But it's locked. In Italy, I think you need to have their equivalent of a social security number (Codice Fiscale) to buy minutes. I will check to ensure that my Credit Card will work.

What I really want to know is:
1) will my German Vodafone SIM card work in Italy, or
2) will an Italian Vodafone SIM card work in my locked German phone.
3) can I get phone unlocked (LG GT400) without Vodafone providing me the unlock code.

I just came to find out that the Verizon salesman lied to me (shocking, I know) when I asked if my Motorola RAZR was a GSM phone. It's not.

Thanks again.

USMCPOP · May 21, 2012

You might try a place like this:

Mobile Unlocking Codes - Quick and Simple

USMCPOP · May 21, 2012

There are places in the electronic malls in Thailand that will make you a copy of most any software. They have only numbered pictures in the shop, as it is illegal, of course. Pick the numbers you want and pay. Before long, a guy appears out in front of the shop with a paper bag. I guess they burn the DVDs in some nearby alley.

WizardOfBoz · May 21, 2012

USMCPOP said:
There are places in the electronic malls in Thailand that will make you a copy of most any software. They have only numbered pictures in the shop, as it is illegal, of course. Pick the numbers you want and pay. Before long, a guy appears out in front of the shop with a paper bag. I guess they burn the DVDs in some nearby alley.

USMCPOP, Thailand sounds fascinating - I'd love to visit (you were a PCV there, right?).

I used to be a software product manager for a company serving the pharmaceutical industry. Used for analyzing and understanding clinical trial data. Our head programmer was Chinese-American, and he was reading on a Chinese blog at a University "authorization codes for XYZ corp's software!". We asked them to remove it, they did, but I'm sure that the numbers are still available somewhere in China. What amuses me is that if and when the Chinese develop software, and some hacker figures out how to crack it, they will whine louder than anybody.

If I was still at that company, I would have two usage modes: pseudoauthorization, and real authorization. Put a reasonably secure system in place for pseudoauthorization mode. And have an incredibly bomb-proof authorization for real mode, with report-backs to the company over the internet. Certainly, folks would crack psuedo-mode. They'd see the screen "Licensed use now authorized" and think they'd done it. In this mode, I'd have the results calculated incorrectly, or have the S/W make slight changes to data files. Or record little random additions or deletions to data every ten times you save a working file. In fact, have the S/W search out similar data files and change THEM, too, so that the person using the software ends up with completely unusable data. Start very subtle, occasionally off by a tenth of a percent or two. Every 1000th number. So, when a company using illegally obtained software submitted them to a regulatory agency, the company data would not match the calcs that the agency uses, and the tens or hundreds of millions of dollars it costs for a submission would be screwed up because some yahoo didn't feel like paying people who developed the software. The changes would be subtle, infrequent, irreproducibly, and untraceable. Bwa ha ha ha! :nono:

I've often thought that the most pernicious virus would be one that went in and changed just a few digits on every spreadsheet on your network, and added or deleted the word "not" after every 27th instance of the word "do" in word files. Or changed phrases like "revenues are up", "sales are up", "record year" "strategy was successful" to "revenues are unimpressive, trending down", "record losses this year", and "strategy was a dismal failure". But only in one or two files.

Could you imagine someone hacking GM's master server of engineering drawings like this? Ending up with 50,000 crankshafts that don't fit 50,000 blocks that don't fit 100,000 cylinder heads....?

USMCPOP · May 21, 2012

Yes, I did a 2-year stint as a volunteer and another year working at the refugee camps to resettle the Laotian and Cambodian refugees. (1977-1980)

WizardOfBoz · May 21, 2012

Well, my interest in visiting isn't based upon cheap software or DVDs. Heck, I want to bury my face in my hands and agree with those shouting "Death to America" when I consider us inflicting "GI Joe-The Rise of the Cobra", or any Rambo movie, or any Paulie Shore movie upon the rest of the world. Why would I want to buy that crap, at any price?

No, I'd want to meet local people, eat good food, visit cultural sites and places of unique natural beauty.

"Cheap DVD movies" has about as much appeal to me as "Turds on Sale! Half Price!"

PDW · May 21, 2012

bosleyjr said:
USMCPOP, Thailand sounds fascinating - I'd love to visit (you were a PCV there, right?).

I used to be a software product manager for a company serving the pharmaceutical industry. Used for analyzing and understanding clinical trial data. Our head programmer was Chinese-American, and he was reading on a Chinese blog at a University "authorization codes for XYZ corp's software!". We asked them to remove it, they did, but I'm sure that the numbers are still available somewhere in China. What amuses me is that if and when the Chinese develop software, and some hacker figures out how to crack it, they will whine louder than anybody.

If I was still at that company, I would have two usage modes: pseudoauthorization, and real authorization. Put a reasonably secure system in place for pseudoauthorization mode. And have an incredibly bomb-proof authorization for real mode, with report-backs to the company over the internet. Certainly, folks would crack psuedo-mode. They'd see the screen "Licensed use now authorized" and think they'd done it. In this mode, I'd have the results calculated incorrectly, or have the S/W make slight changes to data files. Or record little random additions or deletions to data every ten times you save a working file. In fact, have the S/W search out similar data files and change THEM, too, so that the person using the software ends up with completely unusable data. Start very subtle, occasionally off by a tenth of a percent or two. Every 1000th number. So, when a company using illegally obtained software submitted them to a regulatory agency, the company data would not match the calcs that the agency uses, and the tens or hundreds of millions of dollars it costs for a submission would be screwed up because some yahoo didn't feel like paying people who developed the software. The changes would be subtle, infrequent, irreproducibly, and untraceable. Bwa ha ha ha!

I've often thought that the most pernicious virus would be one that went in and changed just a few digits on every spreadsheet on your network, and added or deleted the word "not" after every 27th instance of the word "do" in word files. Or changed phrases like "revenues are up", "sales are up", "record year" "strategy was successful" to "revenues are unimpressive, trending down", "record losses this year", and "strategy was a dismal failure". But only in one or two files.

Could you imagine someone hacking GM's master server of engineering drawings like this? Ending up with 50,000 crankshafts that don't fit 50,000 blocks that don't fit 100,000 cylinder heads....?

This is amusing to contemplate - I write software too, and mine runs in biochemical screening labs. However I'd never actually do it. Think of the consequences for *your* company - do you really think that a legal defence based on you sabotaging other companies because they violated your copyright would fly?

If I did that with my software, screening might decide a blood sample was normal instead of indicating that a child had a particular disorder, and that 'mistake' could well kill the child.

You'd be in jail before your feet hit the floor.

As I said, I've no real sympathy for companies taking others' IP without payment (the cops here are getting sued for exactly that, much to my enjoyment) but some cures have worse outcomes than the problem.

PDW

WizardOfBoz · May 21, 2012

PDW,

Well, yeah. I meant it more as "amusing to contemplate" rather than really suggesting it. Ya gotta realize, PDW, I'm a pretty hyperbolic dude.

That said, the software I worked with was mostly used in development of drugs. And the FDA checks your calcs with their version of the software, which does have a proper license. And they are sticklers about that last decimal point. So if you put differences in the answers in the third significant figure, the FDA would say "your calculations are wrong, and so we do not grant approval to market your drug". In this game, delays cost about a million bucks a day (lost revenues due to limited patent life). No one would be hurt, except companies that used unlicensed software. You could have a flag that would come up and say "Please click the verify/update button to ensure you are using an authorized copy of the latest version. Unlicensed/obsolete versions may not give accurate answers".

So the call goes:
"Hey, your software doesn't work!"
"Sorry to hear that, can you please tell me the license number you used to authorize the software?"
"Ummm, Golly. Errrr."
"Just open the software and hit the "About Software" button".
"Umm, there is no license number"
"I see. Very interesting, don't you think? When you hit the validate/update button what happens?"
"Umm, I get a flag that says that this version is not authorized and that calculations may not be accurate".
"Ok then. Your hitting that button updated my usage database, so I can see that. I also see that this version has been used for the past two years and 3 months, for a total of 75 studies. And that the banner that says 'Please validate and update your software' has appeared at least 130 times over those two years. Let's make sure, because the terms of use clearly state that use of our intellectual property by a firm automatically grants us ownership in any and all intellectual property in your company. Can you tell me what purchase order you used to make this purchase?"
"Umm. Let me get back to you on that".

A software bomb that changes files almost imperceptibly would be really hard to track. Here's my favorite: software that scans your email for items you've sent that include "I love you". The software would write a brief "Hi, just thinking about you" note to the same person, but with an ending of "I love you, and its hard to say but you could really stand to drop those twenty pounds you've gained. You used to be hot."

Just sayin.

Jim

PDW · May 22, 2012

bosleyjr said:
PDW,

Well, yeah. I meant it more as "amusing to contemplate" rather than really suggesting it. Ya gotta realize, PDW, I'm a pretty hyperbolic dude.

That said, the software I worked with was mostly used in development of drugs. And the FDA checks your calcs with their version of the software, which does have a proper license. And they are sticklers about that last decimal point. So if you put differences in the answers in the third significant figure, the FDA would say "your calculations are wrong, and so we do not grant approval to market your drug". In this game, delays cost about a million bucks a day (lost revenues due to limited patent life). No one would be hurt, except companies that used unlicensed software. You could have a flag that would come up and say "Please click the verify/update button to ensure you are using an authorized copy of the latest version. Unlicensed/obsolete versions may not give accurate answers".

So the call goes:
"Hey, your software doesn't work!"
"Sorry to hear that, can you please tell me the license number you used to authorize the software?"
"Ummm, Golly. Errrr."
"Just open the software and hit the "About Software" button".
"Umm, there is no license number"
"I see. Very interesting, don't you think? When you hit the validate/update button what happens?"
"Umm, I get a flag that says that this version is not authorized and that calculations may not be accurate".
"Ok then. Your hitting that button updated my usage database, so I can see that. I also see that this version has been used for the past two years and 3 months, for a total of 75 studies. And that the banner that says 'Please validate and update your software' has appeared at least 130 times over those two years. Let's make sure, because the terms of use clearly state that use of our intellectual property by a firm automatically grants us ownership in any and all intellectual property in your company. Can you tell me what purchase order you used to make this purchase?"
"Umm. Let me get back to you on that".

A software bomb that changes files almost imperceptibly would be really hard to track. Here's my favorite: software that scans your email for items you've sent that include "I love you". The software would write a brief "Hi, just thinking about you" note to the same person, but with an ending of "I love you, and its hard to say but you could really stand to drop those twenty pounds you've gained. You used to be hot."

Just sayin.

Jim

Oh, I think it's a wonderful idea. I'm sure programmers enjoy building in logic bombs etc. I know I did.

One system had a back door that got you to an SQL command line. Naturally this was something you really didn't want people to use. So - you needed to enter 3 pass phrases correctly and in order. Nothing happened if you got it wrong, and I mean nothing - all your input got directed straight to /dev/null and you got no feedback whatsoever. And the phrases changed frequently.

I think the programmer (ie me) was the only one who actually made it work, which was kind of the idea. One wonders just how many systems have stuff built in.

On phone companies, their rapacity and ability to market way in excess of their ability to deliver, the less said the better. At least yours sell you minutes of talk time; ours sell 'call credits' which by an ever-changing and undefined algorithm, translate to minutes of talk time. Good luck figuring out what you've paid for, though. Pox on all of them.

PDW

WizardOfBoz · May 22, 2012

I think the programmer (ie me) was the only one who actually made it work, which was kind of the idea. One wonders just how many systems have stuff built in.

In the early days of dBaseII, you had to regularly rehash the database tables for efficiency. The consultant who set up the system had put in a rehash command shortcut (Ctrl-R, IIRC), and every month would come in, ask for privacy, and hit Ctrl-R. He'd read a magazine for an hour, and then would report "all done!" and bill us for some obscene amount (I think a $1000 or so). A sharp eyed secretary watched him once, the shortcut was found, and the consultant was told his services were no longer needed. Moral of the story is password protection, I guess.

USMCPOP · May 22, 2012

bosleyjr said:
... No, I'd want to meet local people, eat good food, visit cultural sites and places of unique natural beauty...

Well, if you get around to it, I have in-laws over there I could hook you up with. Unfortunately a number of them moved in with us here. :ack2:

My wife and her sister are planning on going back for the month of October.

Edit: A buddy of mine in our volunteer group stayed on and became a travel book writer. He's written the go-to travel guides for Thailand and Laos. A couple other guys stayed on and are still knocking around over there.

http://www.joecummings.com/resume/

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