OT hard wood floor finish

Joe Miranda · Sep 25, 2006

We are re-finishing our hard wood floors and I wonder what you guys have used and whether you are happy with it or not. The last time we did it we used "Varathane". It held up ok but not as good as I would have liked. We have five children and a dog plus we have friends and family over quite often so it is a severe use situation. Any thoughts would be helpful.

Joe Miranda

surplusjohn · Sep 25, 2006

I have used the regular water based urethane on several recoat jobs and it worked ok. We had some floors refinished professionally and they used solvent born urethane. A friend is having his done professionally and that guy swears by water born catylized urethane.

Ferrous Antiquos · Sep 25, 2006

If you're going with the waterborne top coat, make sure to apply a sanding sealer coat first. This raises the grain and seals the pores. Then you scuff off the bumps and high spots (Scocthbrite gray pads work well) and finish with the top coats.

They also have two-part waterborne formulas now, that use a catalyst like fiberglas resin - very tough, fast curing, but short pot life, so you need to work fast and have everything prepped and planned out.

Greeno · Sep 25, 2006

Liberon floor sealer. Oil based, slap it on, works well, easy to re-do. I suppose it's available in the States - don't know though.

Regards, Jim

kevin b. · Sep 25, 2006

The water based floor finishes I have seen seem to have a blue/grey tint to them when dry. I used "Bona" brand solvent based given to me by a professional floor finisher. Very strong solvent smell for about 3 days, but has been down about 5 years and seems very durable.

matt_isserstedt · Sep 25, 2006

Part of the equation, at least for the Varathane is the number of coats, in my experience.

I'd personally like to see about 5 coats, my Dad tells me the gloss is the most durable/hardest, and as such should be the base coats, but he prefers to finish with the semi-gloss to cut down on the incredible bowling-alley shine to a more muted level.

Best of luck with this..if you are doing the whole house it's best to turn off the HVAC completely and move everything out to the garage, and just let the crew (or you) have at a wide-open space.

sandiapaul · Sep 25, 2006

http://www.glitsa.com/

Sea Farmer · Sep 25, 2006

Dog's claws are brutal on all finishes. Scratch city. Water-based varnish has a harder surface than oil-based, but still scratches and they seem more noticeable, somehow, with a harder finish. I have both types in different rooms of my house, all about the same age, and the water-based seems to suffer more from the dog's claws. I don't know if the scratches are deeper, b ut they look worse.

If it was a boat deck, I'd put on multiple coats of oil-based varnish the first time and resign myself to an annual light sanding and one-coat touch-up. It's not really arduous with oil-based varnish, I've never done tried it with water-base. I suspect the sanding is more demanding with the harder water-based stuff though. I'm not that ambitious in the house.

SOP on boats is gloss on the outside surfaces, semi-gloss on inside surfaces.

JST · Sep 25, 2006

Hah.... I'm going to go against everything said so far!

We have animals. When we refinished the first floor 17 years ago, we went with a stain and wax finish. None of that varathane or whatever.

Surprise! The floor really does not look worse than when it was first done. When the scratches show, we use a clean and wax product made for the purpose, and it looks good again.

I specifically did NOT want that "torn varnish" look. Animal claws can rip even hard coatings, eventually, all it takes is a tiny starting place.

YMMV.

Sea Farmer · Sep 25, 2006

J Tiers your experience reminds me of a local cabinet-maker. Talented guy, if you don't want to spend 100K on your kitchen, call somebody else :eek:

When he does a kitchen he asks the customers if they have, or are planning to have children. If the answer is yes he recommends stain and butcher's wax for cabinets and counters. So the smears, fingerprints can be easily buffed out. Years later, his customers are still pleased with the results. As you say, still looks good.

But he does floors with varnish. I don't know why.

David/toledo · Sep 26, 2006

Sherwin Williams has a moisture cured varnish or it is sometype of a urathan don't remember, But made for factry floors great stuff. Gloss only for a finish. My cost was about $55.55 a gallon. I have't seen a waterborn yet that I like for a floor.

David
David Painting and wallcover

Motomoron · Sep 26, 2006

We did the 1948 red oak in our house with the Varathane rental sander, which is a 100 pound random orbit thing, and 3 coats of satin finish Varathane petroleum base urethane.

If you happen to ever try this, be very, very sure than no knucklehead has ever applied a coat of shellac at some point. The sander strips it and it turns into tiny diamond hard spheres which provide a near-frictionless interface between the sander and floor. This can happen in about 2 passes. You take the abrasive off, scrape off the shellac-balls, and continue. I got home with the sander at 10 AM, stopped sanding at 2 AM, and finished the next day. I think it took 20 hrs to sand the living room, dining room, and back bedroom. I didn't want to use a drum sander and take off .060" of irreplaceable wood and nice patina'd color, just give it a uniform scuff and some fresh finish.

I used a synthetic wool pad to put the finish on. The first coat looked nice, but the second wouldn't go on smoothly 'til I sanded the first coat with 120 grit on a 1/2 sheet sander.

It's held up really well for 5 years, but eventually I'll give up and drum sand the whole house. And in my experience, the petroleum based stuff is smelly for a couple days, but looks great for years, which is a reasonable tradeoff.

5 axis Fidia guy · Sep 26, 2006

I am in the same situation, 2 large dogs, 2 kids, nice white ash kitchen wood floor. I have used varathane, and also two diffrent types of minwax water based polyurethane, personally neither one lasted over a year and a half, I am still shopping for something different although I won't put on an oil based finish due to the fact that it really yellows the floors color.

Jim CHF · Sep 26, 2006

As a sand and finish wood flooring contractor it is my opinion that the most durable finish on the market today are the two component water based polyurethane's with isocionate (sp?)hardeners.

Single component water based polyurethane performes just fine in most households.

Moisture cure urethanes are extremely durable and very toxic to work with, personally I won't touch them.

Wax and tung oil finished have the distinct advantage that they can be touched up at any time by applying more finish. They are self dissolving.

At the present time most oil modified urethanes have been reformulated to be VOC compliant, I personally do not like there performance at this time, and am very reluctant to use them.

What ever product you use read and follow the manufactures instructions.

It is my SOP to where a charcoal respirator, and Nitrile gloves when working with all these products except the wax and tung oil. These products are not as safe as the manufactures would like you to believe.

Good luck. Jim

Rudd · Sep 26, 2006

I've got some poly, which has gotten torn up from certain people's obsession with scooting furniture around.
Did the rest of the floors with Land Ark oil. http://oikos.com/green_products/company.php?company_id=2766
These folks aren't the kind to have a website of thier own. THe stuff is 1/3 tung, 1/3 linseed I think, and 1/3 citrus oil. Looks great, if it gets scratched, we just apply some more. No waxing. Not a high gloss finish, but leaves the texture of the wood.
Was also helpful in that I was refinishing the floor in the nursery when the baby was due any day, no nasty solvents etc. A buddy recommnded it, he's done his whole timber frame house interior with the stuff.

Thermo1 · Sep 26, 2006

I used Tung oil and wax on an old oak floor years ago. The floor had been installed wrong, and was badly cupped when I redid the floor one summer. I was not about to use a drum sander and leave the boards flat, but uneven thickness, so I sanded it with a belt sander. Ohh what a job that was. It was 2 or 3 days of crouching or squatting with a noisey belt sander, but the floor came out looking good. Put down several coats of tung oil. I seem to remember thinning the first coat to get it to penetrate into the wood. After several more coats had dried, I put down 2 coats of paste wax. Haven't touched the floor in 20 years, and it still looks OK.

Tung oil is a drying oil, and generates enough heat to cause spontaneous combustion. Store your used rags outside, or under water, so you don't start a fire.

Thermo1

David/toledo · Sep 27, 2006

Jim I could beleive you on the two part polyurethane's with isocionate. Most paint finishes that I have seen that are a two part are good products. What product are you using. As a painting contractor I am all is looking for the good stuff. The moisture cured varnish was what SW head me. for the job. A high $ home with dogs and so on in a main walk way/ kitchen.
David

Andreas · Sep 27, 2006

This is my recipe.

5L Linseed oil
0.5kg Pine resin
2.5L Turpentine
50ml Cobalt siccative

Melt resin in hot oil, heat oil until it solves.
Cool, add turpentine and siccative.
Apply generously especially at knots and endgrain.
If possible, keep oil hot while applying.
After approx 30min soak eccesive oil with rags.
Put all rags in a pile, and watch them ignite in about 30mins.
This is both a beatiful and durable treatment
for soft and hardwood. And it is dirt cheap.

Andreas Wahlberg

Joe Miranda · Sep 27, 2006

Can someone please give me more of a description of the wax and tung oil finsihes that have been mentioned? This sounds intriguing in that it can be touched up as needed.

Joe

Jim CHF · Sep 27, 2006

Dave I usually use finishes from Bona Kemi or Vermeister, but there are several good manufactures to choose from.
Joe for a wax finish sand and prep the floor as normal, stain if desired, apply wax and melt in with a buffer. Two coats will probably be fine.
For tung oil I usually apply four coats. The first two soak in and the second two will give the finish some build. I prefer Waterlox but there are other good brands.
again good luck. Jim

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