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OT- How do you prevent superficial rust on stainless railing?

ORAGRAG

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Location
Lino Lakes, Minnesota
I have a new home under construction close to ocean and along with very high humidity. I am being told by the builder that I should use polished stainless for exterior balcony railings as it is less prone to surface rust then brushed stainless. I prefer the look of brushed so suggested that they do a nitric acid surface treatment. He replied that this would only be of temporary help. Does anyone have experience with what stainless type to use and a treatment for this situation.
 
I’ve worked for two architectural metal firms, one in Las Vegas, the other outside of Atlanta. Both specialized in stainless steel. In Nevada, my answer would be: “what?!?” We never had any issues with any sort of rust on stainless, even with fairly terrible overall practices regarding cross-contamination. No one in that shop thought twice about spraying the sparks from the mild steel they were grinding right at a high dollar stainless part. Stuff just doesn’t really rust in the desert.

Forward to the other architectural shop in Atlanta. The owner was a psychopath, an addict and typically in over his head, especially with the warrantee he sold with our work. Despite rarely being able to form a coherent thought much of the time, he took cross-contamination and galvanic corrosion very seriously. Stainless and mild steel were kept as far apart as possible. There were stainless tools and other and not obeying those rules was a fireable offense.

In the layman’s, stainless steel isn’t meant to be interpreted as rust-proof. It’s stainLESS, not stainFREE. It oxidizes like most other metals... it just typically oxidizes in a less offensive manner than aluminum or mild steel. Layman’s again, but my understanding is that the higher chromium and nickel content that makes stainless steel stainless need some time to reform after any operation that “knocks them back”. If memory serves, the concept is known as passivation. Passivation can be accelerated chemically, but my best suggestion is this.

First off, lean on your contractor to lean on whatever sub he has picked and come to terms on a limited warrantee regarding workmanship and rust. They both may outright refuse, but you’ll never know if you don’t ask.

After that, it’s exterior trim, so it’ll be one of the last items to get installed no matter what, spend a few bucks on an acceptable and temporary railing for the safety of the workers while the house is under construction and you and family while the stainless is doing IT’s thing.

I would recommend you pull the trigger on the stainless work as early as possible and protect your investment by putting the stainless parts in a nice, climate-controlled storage unit until you just cannot stand the temporary stuff anymore. Let the stainless do it’s thing away from the salt air and humidity.

Lastly, make cleaning, protecting and sealing your railings part of your scheduled maintenance program. Clean the rails when you clean out the gutters, or something. I would also suggest a sealant of some sort to help the stainless oxide layer keep the rust off. I don’t know of anything material specific off-hand, personally I really like Johnson’s paste/floor wax for stuff like this. An application once or twice a year will probably tip your railings into near stainFREE territory.




Jeremy
 
Not sure about straight nitric, pickling gel with nitric and hydrofluoric did seem to stave of tea staining a little longer where it was used on polished 316 I noticed, but like your builder said, still happens eventually.

I'm exposed to both summer and winter prevailing winds off the sea, with salt deposits on exposed surfaces. A barrier I made using mirror polished tube over a drop, had staining take the better part of 1 year ~ 18 months to develop. The buff polished tube I used for a roof barricade (which is classed as satin finish)started to discolour in 6 months.

Polished should be easier to maintain, you can hand polish it at least. Trying to match grain direction and grit in brushed finish, with a scothbrite linish, if the staining bothers you, would be an absolute bastard, short of a structure that comes apart.
 
We build railings from 316 vs 304 to prevent rust spotting. Costs more, but is a whole hell of a lot better than 304 in a salt water environment. Most of these are going into homes on cape cod the eastern ocean front. Whoever makes the railings should take extra precautions about cross contamination’s. We also send out our work to be passivated at an electro polish shop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You might try sending Ries a pm. I know he makes a lot of large scale public art out of stainless often far away from his shop. I know he doesn't want to go across the country for maintenance calls. I know he's mentioned electropolishing in the past.
 
304 is acceptable for outdoor use away from the coasts. Near the coasts (salt water) 316 should be specified. The best thing you can do is either specify the railing to be Passivated or Electropolished after fabrication is complete. Electropolishing will make them very shiny and will also give you the best corrosion resistance. If you really want the brushed look, they could be brushed after passivation or EP but it will reduce the corrosion resistance at least a little. The smoother it is the fewer "places" there are for corrosion to start (oversimplifying...). The process of passivating or EP will remove any stray carbon steel that may be on the surface and would cause rust spotting also. So it helps cover the cross contamination issue of people using tools on both steel and SS during fabrication. You would be looking for places that do metal finishing or plating as possible sources for doing these processes.
 
A lot of rust issues on stainless can be attributed to surface contamination from using grinders that have also been used on regular steel. Rust comes from free iron on the surface. As stated above, passivation or electropolishing will prevent this. Don't confuse oxidation ( dulling of the surface) with rust.
 
If you go with stainless you will need to do maintenance on it. It needs to be washed to keep dust from building up on it, the dust that gets on it then gets dampened with mist or dew then more dust easily sticks to that is where the rusting will start. That is why polished is preferred over grained - the graining gives the little particles a place to grab on to. So the only answer is for YOU to wash, wax and keep it clean. Also as the others have said, use 316.
 
whatever you end up doing, plan a diy passivation schedule. use phosporic, maybe 25%, a rag and rinse it off. easy. i handle phosphoric with bare hands, no odor. its not as strong a passivator as nitric but does its job. have it nitric treated before installation.

watch out concerning fasteners. i would even do some testing. i recently used some 304 nuts and bolts outdoors. they were from a reputable source, we have not much humidity. after a month on painted surfaces they were full of very visible rust. they gave me 316 hardware for free. it was about 200 pieces, so quite annoying to replace. the 316 fastenes rust as well, a bit less. its a crazy world today, my stainless railings are spotless after 15 years now.
 
I’ve worked for two architectural metal firms, one in Las Vegas, the other outside of Atlanta. Both specialized in stainless steel. In Nevada, my answer would be: “what?!?” We never had any issues with any sort of rust on stainless, even with fairly terrible overall practices regarding cross-contamination. No one in that shop thought twice about spraying the sparks from the mild steel they were grinding right at a high dollar stainless part. Stuff just doesn’t really rust in the desert.

Forward to the other architectural shop in Atlanta. The owner was a psychopath, an addict and typically in over his head, especially with the warrantee he sold with our work. Despite rarely being able to form a coherent thought much of the time, he took cross-contamination and galvanic corrosion very seriously. Stainless and mild steel were kept as far apart as possible. There were stainless tools and other and not obeying those rules was a fireable offense.

In the layman’s, stainless steel isn’t meant to be interpreted as rust-proof. It’s stainLESS, not stainFREE. It oxidizes like most other metals... it just typically oxidizes in a less offensive manner than aluminum or mild steel. Layman’s again, but my understanding is that the higher chromium and nickel content that makes stainless steel stainless need some time to reform after any operation that “knocks them back”. If memory serves, the concept is known as passivation. Passivation can be accelerated chemically, but my best suggestion is this.

First off, lean on your contractor to lean on whatever sub he has picked and come to terms on a limited warrantee regarding workmanship and rust. They both may outright refuse, but you’ll never know if you don’t ask.

After that, it’s exterior trim, so it’ll be one of the last items to get installed no matter what, spend a few bucks on an acceptable and temporary railing for the safety of the workers while the house is under construction and you and family while the stainless is doing IT’s thing.

I would recommend you pull the trigger on the stainless work as early as possible and protect your investment by putting the stainless parts in a nice, climate-controlled storage unit until you just cannot stand the temporary stuff anymore. Let the stainless do it’s thing away from the salt air and humidity.

Lastly, make cleaning, protecting and sealing your railings part of your scheduled maintenance program. Clean the rails when you clean out the gutters, or something. I would also suggest a sealant of some sort to help the stainless oxide layer keep the rust off. I don’t know of anything material specific off-hand, personally I really like Johnson’s paste/floor wax for stuff like this. An application once or twice a year will probably tip your railings into near stainFREE territory.




Jeremy

That was sound advice.

StainLESS cladding in Hong Kong is expected to "go brown". So it gets treated every now and then. It's a bizness.

So is washdown of our brazillions of square meters of fired through-body porcelain tile cladding on tall buildings. Last go, our complex, "Kornhill", Quarry Bay? The contractor took several years to complete. And had to replace over three hundred high-spec glass windows damaged by sloppy masking against the overspray of the hydrofluoric acid used from ground level to over 30 stories up to clean the tiles.

Bronze, and pre-browning, or pre verdi-gris and just get USED to it - or even Kawneer-style treated loominum extrusions - dirt-common on Hong Kong Island- rather than trying for a bright OR brushed silver or gold look, makes a lot more sense, waterside.

So do a select few hardwoods or highly waxy/resinous solid-heart-of softwoods. Eg; Teak. either varnished to a fare-thee-well. ELSE left to weather, much the same as weathered Cypress, Cedar, "etc".

If I had the scheckels to build waterside? Fuggabuncha metals. Take-on the maintenance. enjoy the fruit of it.

Teak, please! See Aberdeen Marina Club. "Royal" Hong Kong Yacht Club facilities. Even our ancient "Star Ferry" deck, trim, railings and the interior trim of our ancient electric rail trams operating mere feet above sea level, harbourside.
Same again Shanghai to Singapore. Sea and sea air are where we live, year round, and for a VERY long time, already.

Anyone who's opinion I actually GAVE a damn about (ME!) would be far the more impressed with pragmatic anodized loominum or fine woods than with cheap-arse cookie-cutter Stainless, anyway!

The rail of USS United States? Not teak. Aluminium, rather. 'Varnish" was a British thing! Septics are lazier!

:D
 
If you do no want stainless: I work in a port and for railings, ladders and such we specify hot dip galvanized followed by powder coating. Lasts for 40-50 years even in tidal zones and you can choose the colour.
 
If you do no want stainless: I work in a port and for railings, ladders and such we specify hot dip galvanized followed by powder coating. Lasts for 40-50 years even in tidal zones and you can choose the colour.

Point. Even for sheet-metal roofing, coastal areas, they spec 416 Stainless fasteners, not 3XX.

And it is expected it will "brown". Just not fail quickly.

So even 416 SS screws or nails can be bulk-painted. For a while.

Asian, tropical, coastal environments, it isn't "just" corrosives.

It is also biological molds and slimes that SS doesn't much make war against - just tolerates as "passengers".

Copper and its alloys, OTOH, can outright kill MOST Biologicals off their chemical byproducts.
 
termite, you are a nasty stain on this forum with your lying about being a machinist from the start, as verified by senior members of this forum, but you continue on.
So, what does it take to remove a disgusting stain like you!

Folks, the termite is a stalker, and he gets help from at least one member here that has access to the forum control.
So, dont jump in on this lousy fuck, he will act outside of the forum to cause damage to anyone that calls him out.
 
If you do no want stainless: I work in a port and for railings, ladders and such we specify hot dip galvanized followed by powder coating. Lasts for 40-50 years even in tidal zones and you can choose the colour.

Thanks for this information. Did some research surrounding using galvanized and seems the best way to go for my application. For example came across this company and they offer this type of railings. So now I am wondering about material for cables. Will I have the same issue of rust?
The Prairie Style Cable Railing - Keuka Studios
 
So now I am wondering about material for cables. Will I have the same issue of rust?

Potentially worse, actually.

Cable has a LOT of surface area, and a LOT of crevices which can harbour debris and biologicals that make a home in or a meal on the debris. Think just springtime windborne pollens, for one example. Pollen is a high-grade "food" to insect, fungoides, bacteria... or even mankind.

Decaying leaves and their mold, the same in the fall.

There are advantages to plain rod, tube, bar, or angled slat as to easier washdown and less frequent need of it, as rain helps, rather than hinders keeping it clear of debris accumulation.

"Trendy" can be spendy in ongoing-for-long-years maintenance as well as initial installation costs.

About 35 years back, Fairfax County put up a fence around a park near our home. It looked odd. The rails seemed too thin to stay as straight as they were appearing to be, and no damage had accumulated from deer, humans, nor windborne debris off an adjacent wooded area.

Closer inpection? The thin, flat-surfaced, not rope-textured, "rustproof rails" were recycled fabric-in vehicle tire cord, conveyor belting, or some such purpose-made similar origin goods.

Nice and straight, post to post.. simply because they were under tension from anchors at the ends!

Stuff that hit a fence of that sort just bounced-off!
 
Yuh Yuh termite! What happened to your "Drunk Hick in the Barn projection? Yah trying to sound like a normal person?
You are an cock sucking Rooster Fish troll termite, and a stalker!
So, termite, why hasnt your cop buddy on the sub forum thrown the cuffs on me, since you have branded me a drug addict, and criminal on this forum.
Oh yah! It looks like your cop buddy only has a handfull of balloons, and sex problems from just looking at his icon, and his other actions.
Funny how some fucked up cops try to show the world they can do something else. I always find that amusing.
But you termite, I dont find you amusing, and I am going to to shit down your neck on your way to the 20000 post goal.
Yuh fucked up picking a fight and stalking me termite! Now put some more WD40 on yer wittle winky, share some with your cop buddy from Anal Pucker County Texas!
 








 
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