Ot-How should I insulate this wall?

snowman · Oct 25, 2016

Just closed on the new garage last night. (There's a house as well)

Standard 2x4 wall sitting on a concrete block. Block wall is exposed on outside.

I'll be using closed cell spray foam. I feel like I need to cover that bottom block, but really don't know how without building the wall out.

Final wall will be drywall.

Opinions?

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snowman · Oct 25, 2016

Should add....I will only be using 1 or 2" of foam. Then fiberglass. Spray foam is too expensive to fill the whole cavity.

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Red James · Oct 25, 2016

Block walls are very porous, lots of air / moisture travel through. At the very least apply a waterproof sealer to stop those.

snowman · Oct 25, 2016

That's one of the reasons for the closed cell foam.

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Jachin · Oct 25, 2016

If the slab is not insulated over the ground and has no vapor barrier then put down blue or gray styrofoam sheets, tape the seams and run up the block wall. Cover with dry fill and finish with concrete to desired thickness. Anything less is a complete waste of time. I would also add rebar or chain link fence to reinforce cement in floor. Add conduit runs and plumbing to suit. It will be the best thing you have ever done.

Graham Gott · Oct 25, 2016

When I built my shop, I filled the cavities in the block stem wall with loose styrofoam beads. I don't know if this really provides all that much benefit (especially after settling over time), but I only have about 1-1/2 blocks exposed above the floor. At any rate, it wouldn't be real practical to do in this situation.

You might do a rough calculation on the heat loss through the small area of block to see what effect it really has. I did this in a couple places when I built my shop and realized the heat loss was very small relative to the amount of cost/effort it would take to improve the insulation in that area. It might not be worth worrying about for an 8" tall band around the floor of the shop...especially when compared to the heat loss and air infiltration of a typical overhead door.

alonzo83 · Oct 25, 2016

one of our clients sprays closed cell foam. I have learned more than I need to know to tell you one inch of closed cell foam is more than enough to seal your wall up better than a yetti.

Very good stuff and if you plan on staying in this house for a long time I would highly reccomend it over any other insulation option.

The blocks at the bottom I would not worry about as much as the walls and the ceiling.

snowman · Oct 25, 2016

Thanks...it's essentially just this wall. The opposite wall has it as well, but in time that wall will come out for an addition.

I'll likely just ignore it and insulate from sill plate up. This wall will be covered with vidmar's anyway.

Bill D · Oct 25, 2016

I do not see any hold down bolts? I would expect to see at least one in that distance. Better to install them now rather then after you insulate. If you do have the bolts make sure they have the big square washers. The little round washers will pull through under load. They have not been code approved for 50 years or more here.
Bill D.

Mark Rand · Oct 25, 2016

My thought would be to use either spray foam or foam-panels-with-a-moisture-barrier on the wood. and cover the floor and blocks with two layers of epoxy floor paint to seal them.

snowman · Oct 25, 2016

Bill D said:
I do not see any hold down bolts? I would expect to see at least one in that distance. Better to install them now rather then after you insulate. If you do have the bolts make sure they have the big square washers. The little round washers will pull through under load. They have not been code approved for 50 years or more here.
Bill D.

Never seen them installed on a free standing garage. Weird. I'll have to look closer, there has to be something.

snowman · Oct 25, 2016

And yes, absolutely using spray foam. Unfortunately, none of the local contractors have a rig set up for it. I'll have to buy the kits.

SBAER · Oct 25, 2016

In Canada we have this stuff call Roxul, it doesn't burn. The fact that I had that stuff in the wall cavity of my shop probably saved my shop from completely burning to the ground when a squirrel chewed through some wire. The fire smoldered for more than 12 hour.

Big B · Oct 25, 2016

I'd buy R-13 fiberglass insulation and staple it up backed up with plastic from the inside for a vapor barrier. I'm in your general climate and have used this in houses and garages and it works great.

Bill D · Oct 25, 2016

A garage is the least rigid structure made. Called a soft first story, no lateral bracing in the door wall plane of the structure. So it can fall over like a house of cards in two directions parallel to the door.
You probably worry more about wind ripping off the big door then lifting the entire structure, or at least the roof, off in one piece. Then having it sail away in one piece like the wizard of oz. The bolts will help in either case, also flooding.
No need to use offical bolts, all thread is good. Cement them in with pure cement, much cheaper then epoxy and easier cleaning prior to placement.
You might consider spraying the dirt and wood for termites before you seal it up. I used a nicotine based spray with no odor around my house.
Bill D.

Bill D · Oct 25, 2016

Roxul is r15 instead of the cheap r13 fiberglass sold in the states. So a 16% gain in insulation. For some reason the Roxul sold here is called noise reduction and no mention is made of r value. I wonder if it is less r value then what you can buy?
Bill D

TDegenhart · Oct 25, 2016

Jachin said:
If the slab is not insulated over the ground and has no vapor barrier then put down blue or gray styrofoam sheets, tape the seams and run up the block wall. Cover with dry fill and finish with concrete to desired thickness. Anything less is a complete waste of time. I would also add rebar or chain link fence to reinforce cement in floor. Add conduit runs and plumbing to suit. It will be the best thing you have ever done.

If you are going to that much work, I would put heating tubes in the concrete. Michigan gets cold in the winter and in the spring the warm floor will prevent condensation.

Tom

Bondo · Oct 26, 2016

I am redoing my house and literally just put in the roxul insulation in the 1 room I have knocked down. That stuff is awesome. It's water resistant, cuts like styrofoam boards, no real dust, and supposedly mouse don't eat or nest in it. There are 2 different types of the roxul. 1 is for thermal insulation, the other is for sound barrier. The sound barrier is 3" thick, the other stuff is for walls

mach2 · Oct 26, 2016

I would fill between the studs with fiberglass insulation. Use either a vapor barrier backed fiberglass batt or and unfaced fiberglass batt and visqueen vapor barrier. Since you are in a colder climates it might be worth while to fur out the wall an additional 3 1/2" of insulation space. Your wallboard will cover the sill plate too.

There are other ways than bolts to tie the frame down to the structure like straps, but yes the frame needs to be connected to the foundation. The plywood sheathing is resisting shear (like wind loads).

You defiantly want to insulate now before closing up the wall. My garage was already sheathed on the inside so I did heat loss calculations. Insulating the walls will make a difference for sure and may even be required by your local codes if you are heating the garage but by far insulating the ceiling makes a much bigger difference. When insulating the attic be sure the attic ventilation is maintained or your roofing will fail in short order.

Don't forget to add seals to the garage door.

I personally do not like spray on insulation due to the off gassing. Paint the block if you want.

The best way to insulate the floor is at the exterior foundation wall to two feet below grade with 2" of styrofoam insulation. All of the insulation manufacturers mak an insulation for below grade use.

Modelman · Oct 26, 2016

snowman said:
Should add....I will only be using 1 or 2" of foam. Then fiberglass. Spray foam is too expensive to fill the whole cavity.

Huh? Are you saying you are going to spray 1" of closed cell foam on the inside of the sheathing, then put fiberglass inside of that? That's backwards. The closed cell foam will form a vapor barrier on the cold side of the wall. The fiberglass will pick up moisture from the warm room, which will condense against the colder surface of the foam and negate most the insulating value of the fiberglass.

Vapor barriers MUST go on the warm side of the wall, with a means for any moisture that gets through to keep on going and migrate to the outside... that is the reason why modern "house wrap" products like Tyvek are moisture permeable.

My advice, either fill the cavities with foam, or don't use foam at all, just fiberglass and a polyethylene sheet vapor barrier.

Dennis

Ot-How should I insulate this wall?

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