OT - How to store digital data forever

Over the years, I've always heard people harping about 'backing up your data'. So, I've done that.

I used to use CD's but of course they have limited capacity, and a lot of times a 10 year old CD won't be readable by the new and improved (?) operating systems. Thanks, Gates.

I bought a 1TB external HDD and downloaded all sorts of data (mostly photos). After a few years, I went to add more and it did lots of funny stuff....I did some research and it turns out the drive is broken and all of my data inside is essentially lost. Awesome.

I bought an external SDD, which has no motor or drive, and have been using that. but, in reading up on SDD's, it is said they can lose their flash if you leave them without power for too long which is fancy way of saying you've lost your data again.

So.....is there an accessible and affordable media on which to save data for at least 50 years? Don't even bother with 'cloud' based places......no way am I gonna put my fate in the hands of unknown others.

GregSY said:

So.....is there an accessible and affordable media on which to save data for at least 50 years? Don't even bother with 'cloud' based places......no way am I gonna put my fate in the hands of unknown others.

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Mylar tape.

I remember a few years ago granite? CD/DVD were made to be "forever storage".
Found an old story on them.. M-disk:
M-Disc holds your data 'forever,' we go hands-on for a few minutes (video) | Engadget
No experience with them, wonder how they are holding up?

EmanuelGoldstein said:

Mylar tape.

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That's probably true. The hard part is keeping tape drives functional over decades.

If its really that important
multiple copies, multiple formats,multiple locations

I read the original moon walk videos were stored on two inch tape. Some genius at NASA tossed them all into the trash as garbage. All that is left is lower quality video that was converted down into broadcast quality.
Bill D

On Edit: I was wrong they just erased them to reuse the tape. I remember using a hole punch to make a floppy disk two sided and some scotch tape to reuse a permanent video tape

Moon landing tapes got erased, NASA admits - Reuters

It seems thumb drives are the toughest nowadays, they will even go through washer

There is NOTHING that will keep data accessible forever. Formats change, material deteriorates, mechanics quit. Probably the best strategy is to make new copies onto new media and new format periodically. If I'd really needed it, I'd have copied 8" disks to 5-1/4, then to 3-1/2 , then to whatever.

If you want to think about the challenges, consider this. If we put nuclear waste in underground storage with a warning sign that it's still dangerous after 1000 years, what would that be? How many languages have disappeared entirely in 1000 years. Even English, still around today, is incomprehensible in the 1000 year old version.

TGTool said:

Even English, still around today, is incomprehensible in the 1000 year old version.

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Pray thee, hath thine attempted to turn thine parchment off, thence on again?

I dunno. At my age, forever seems a lot shorter than it used to be. I don't think I'll be needing anything that lasts "forever".

TGTool said:

There is NOTHING that will keep data accessible forever.

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You can get close though. Engraved writing on granite.

Just ask Moses and Aaron.......

I use 50 years as I'll be dead by then and I figure my kids can have time to re-save it by then. I don't need 1000 years. After all, a shitty old photograph can make it 50 years....

I love the NASA article stating how they lost the original tapes but they're restoring some copies that will be 'even better' than the originals. Hmmm...even better than the real thing...

Heck, It takes me 50 years to sort through all the different connector configurations. What a rats nest in that drawer!

GregSY said:

So.....is there an accessible and affordable media on which to save data for at least 50 years? Don't even bother with 'cloud' based places......no way am I gonna put my fate in the hands of unknown others.

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If it's something embarrassing post it to the internet and you'll never be allowed to lose it, but that would count as cloud wouldn't it?

So many people hate the cloud who do not understand it.
Personally I have no problem with it other than the fact that you need real bandwidth and in many places that is not available.
Your bank and credit card accounts are likely easier to hack than your cloud account.
If you do not want your data in the cloud you also should not have a account that does online banking or any credit card.

I don't worry so much about backups, more about removing or not leaving my digital fingerprints on the net. (that not a cloud related problem)

Two backup methods is SOP, three if critical as you may need to use "voting" on data.
There are places that can bring the data on your dead HDD back if stuck in that hole.
CDs no longer and option, DVD or M-Disc along with a standard add on hard drive.

I do add on hard drives and the cloud as my two.
My full backup includes code I wrote in 1975 to today's excel sheet and on a high speed net connection takes days

Never dreaming I own this much data and full becomes why in cases. Do I need the SPC run data for making tooling for the Buick 3800? Well heck I have room .......
What and how much data do you really need to archive?

If critical, Rama did it it threes. Nasa did it in threes even at the cpu board level.

Now where we are I will stand right out and say that that I'll stick it in the cloud first above all other options.
Second is my local.
If a bad actor was coming for you your cloud account safer that your online computer with the same data.
One can "own" your computer or network, not so easy for info in the cloud.
Things have changed so much.

This all bullshit above just my opinion for consideration, I only know and read rumors about intrusions into systems.
It could be that the cloud is not safe at all.
Bob

ChipSplitter said:

You can get close though. Engraved writing on granite.

Just ask Moses and Aaron.......

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"I give you 15 <crash>…..Oiy,.... 10 ! I give you ten commandments"

Newman109 said:

I dunno. At my age, forever seems a lot shorter than it used to be. I don't think I'll be needing anything that lasts "forever".

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I understand the sentiment, being of a certain age as they say.
However, i have a lot of family photos and genealogical information going back a couple hundred years. I would like to ensure my grandkids and theirs are able to see them.

Right now I am using redundant hard drives. I really need to do a RAID setup at least.
I think Cloud storage is the answer, but the amount of data I have requires a paid subscription. What happens to my data if it's not paid? Or the company goes out of business? Or the EMP attack happens. Or Zombies???

I wonder if a trio of dual-HDD RAID 1 setups, with three different disk vendors to reduce chance of batch failure, then doing copies from array to array, with comparisons to the two other arrays for fidelity checks.

After a set time, the oldest array is sunsetted, with the replacement array copied, then compared to the previous three. When approved, old array is trashed/repurposed, and the process continues.

Bit of a pain, but HDD's a pretty damn reliable now, and RAID 1 gives you additional protection. If a new technology comes along that's clearly better, make the transition, but I'd wait at least five years before doing so. And no, I'd not use SSD's for this purpose.

IMO all digital is temporary. If I want something to last longer than that, old school hard medium is what I do. Sure paper can deteriorate, but you can watch it happen. A damaged memory stick looks just as good as a good one. That's not to say I don't do digital, but half of the stuff no-one will want in 20 years, the other half can be printed out. We have 100 year old blue prints that are just now getting scanned digitally so we can avoid using them or the 50 grainy photocopies also on file, but the original paper copy is still the "master" that we might have to go back to in 100 years... if we're still building the same machines.

Even family photos can be scanned and re-printed indefinitely. Lost detail can be digitally repaired. IMO family photos and documents should be cherished as they're often our only link to the past, but the "big picture" of history is to learn from it. If you still have a picture of your great great great great grand-dad, that's cool, but not near as cool as knowing his life story and what you can learn from it.

Same goes in an industrial environment. Lots of records get trashed because they are seen as worthless (often rightly so), until they are needed and can't be found. Lots of "business" has happened in the last 500 years, and I think a sad bit of it has been repeats of past failures. Too many are so focused on what THEY plan to do with THEIR career, and they miss what the past can teach them or what they can preserve for their later replacements.

So all and all, I think data preservation isn't about a single "save," it's a mentality that has to be maintained. People made granite monuments that could last thousands of years.... watch the news.....

I was in a company that ditched all the 50 year old records.....didn't want to own up to designs
that might still be out there.

Repair parts business be damned.