What hardness tester?

Hi.
We need a metal hardness tester at work.
Price isn´t a real issue, and I was given the task to find one.
Can you recommend one and where to buy it?

Also.
I see there are electronic and mechanical. The electronic ones seem easier to use. Are they better?
Worse?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Need more information. Type of hardness test being performed (vickers / rockwell / etc), also what size parts. If you're making little widgets that you can put under the machine that's nice, but if you're making large cases you'll need something that you can take to the workpiece. If you have oddly shaped parts you may need fixturing to hold them steady.

If price isn't an issue just find a laboratory supply dealer and tell him your application and let him sell you something nice. Must be nice working somewhere that price isn't an issue.

If you're looking for Rockwell tester, I like the old mechanical Wiltons. We have an old and new (2005?) mechanical Wilton Rockwells in the lab. Prefer the old one for ergonomics, and mechanical quality. I don't know how old the old one is, but it was probably at least 20 years old back in 1997. We still have it in the lab. You can check them with calibration blocks which you will need anyway if you are testing hardness. Get some calibration blocks. preferably over a wide range, but realistically you just need one that is in the range of the hardness you're shooting for.

As far as where to get used ones, look on ebay, sort by distance. You want to check it before you buy. Otherwise look at dealers in used lab equipment.

Edit:
I see you're in Iceland. Talk to a University. Someone there should have one and be able to point you in the right direction. Since price isn't a big deal, I'd guess a new one would be in order, if this is for production QC.

I have to assume that Keith meant Wilson testers. Best and most complete line in the business. If you can send drawings, pictures, and specifications that you need to check, they will quote you on the equipment to check it with.
Wilson Hardness - Hardness Testing Solutions you can rely on
Probably your closest contact will be in the UK.
JR

Thanks JR, Yes. Wilson testers. Not Wilton. Oops.

Wilson makes 2 styles of digital tester. One is just a mechanical tester with a digital readout, it's no more accurate than an old one, except that the analog indicator is replaced with a digital readout, and the test is automated - put the sample in and watch it go . The 2000 series of tester is a completely different animal, it has a servo to apply the load and a load cell to read the pressure applied, it's supposed to be more accurate. I'm not sure under what conditions it would be 'better' or more accurate, but it is a different style of machine. The test process is pretty simple, you are applying weight to a diamond penetrator and measuring how far it penetrates into the surface of your sample. The most common penetrator is called a 'Brale' penetrator referring to it's shape, and every .000080" of depth = 1 point on the Rockwell scale. The accuracy comes from how precisely you can apply the force, and how precisely you can measure the penetration.

I had one of the former style digital testers for several years. I bought it used from Instron (Wilson). They told me it's first owner was NIST in Washington DC, they had it as a backup to their $50,000 super proprietary hardness tester. I can't prove that, it's just the story I was given. I sold it and replaced it with an old Model 4JR because the electronic model was sort of fiddly to work on and the old 4JR was just as accurate according to my test blocks. Much cheaper too. I had a problem with the digital tester once, called Instron for service because I assumed it was electronic, paid $800 for the serviceman to drive out and fiddle with it for 2 hours, finally I fixed it while he watched me by loosening up some hardened grease in a roller with a spray of WD40. If you want to test case hardening or very thin samples, you'll need a superficial tester too, usually that requires two different testers. The 2000 allows you to do both with one machine without mechanical complexity of a dual machine.

Well, the samples would mostly be axles from 2" to 6" dia.
Not long, 15" at most, so can be held by hand.
Does that make a differrence?

I've got an older model 3TT Wilson. Looks like you can get about 8" in the v-block with the telescopic thread guards removed.

You don't want to hold it by hand in a bench tester, because the slightest movement will ruin your diamond penetrator. Wilson does have support fixtures for shafts that would handle that. They are catalog items, but it's good that cost isn't a real issue if you need one.

Also take a look at New Age hardness testers.

Thank you all.
Wilson seems to be it.

Mud-

every few years or whenever a good auction is coming up, I think maybe I ought to finally get a hardness tester.
Still have not pulled the trigger*, but your clear informative writing here and on some previous occasions has certainly been a valuable part of my sparse education on the subject.

Thanks!

smt

*Actually, I "won" one on eBay maybe a half dozen years ago, set up an appointment on a day when I had to make trip/have a box truck in that area anyway, Was there at appointed time, but seller did not show, did not answer either of 2 phone#'s or answer door while I sat all afternoon wondering if I was going to get the truck back before midnight. Finally left. He called that night and asked where I was, when I told him, he said i should have called (3rd #, which he had not given me)

smt

I was given a 4JR that came ou of a local heavy equipment manufacturing company. It came with several diamonds and a number of test standards. It had sat unused for probably 15 years. I found an online manual and and started working with it. Not surprisingly, it was sticky and did not seem to function correctly the first several tests. Since the unit is simply a robustly built (1930's engineering) mechanical device, all I had to do was minimal cleaing and relubing of the few moving parts it has. Within an hour or so it was back to working as designed and in spec. Had this been some elctronic "magic" device, I would have not been able to get it going myself and would have had to send it in for a very expensive service. Unless I had a very high volume production line testing requirement, I would always want a mechanical device. Since I do some hardening of parts and tools myself, it is very nice to know what is really coming out of the heat treating process.

What I do not have are the ball anvils for testing softer materials like brass and bronze. Not much need for those, but it would be nice to fill out the anvil selection.

With respect to custom holders: Wilson does sell custom holders for round materials and odd shaped parts. One for round stock came with the machine. I think most machinists could fabricate their own as the only requirement is that the stock be held very solidly without any up/down deflection when loaded for testing.

Denis

Thanks for the complement Stephen. I had a hard time find info when I needed it and had to jump in blind and dumb. You might consider a portable tester. I see Ames testers on ebay for about $300-$400. I first became aware of them when I saw Top Fuel guys testing their friction plates in the pits with them.

dgfoster - where did you find a manual online? I couldn't find anything when I looked. I eventually bought a manual from Dave at Meridian machinery. I posted a few pages here in the manuals forum, I just looked and it's had almost 4000 views

Mud said:

Thanks for the complement Stephen. I had a hard time find info when I needed it and had to jump in blind and dumb. You might consider a portable tester. I see Ames testers on ebay for about $300-$400. I first became aware of them when I saw Top Fuel guys testing their friction plates in the pits with them.

dgfoster - where did you find a manual online? I couldn't find anything when I looked. I eventually bought a manual from Dave at Meridian machinery. I posted a few pages here in the manuals forum, I just looked and it's had almost 4000 views

Click to expand...

Mud, It's been 3 years or so since I looked it up. I do not have the manual available to me right now and will not for about 2 weeks. Hopefully, when I printed it there was a URL printed too---along the top or bottom of the page. When I am able to look at it I will post that info.

Denis

Some selection and usage info here: Hardness Testing Applications, References & Guides to Hardness Testing

David Merrill

Well, thanks to the spammer (reported) for bringing up some old threads that might be of interest.

Now can a mod ban him?

Merci...

dgfoster said:

Mud, It's been 3 years or so since I looked it up. I do not have the manual available to me right now and will not for about 2 weeks. Hopefully, when I printed it there was a URL printed too---along the top or bottom of the page. When I am able to look at it I will post that info.

Denis

Click to expand...

Since this thread was resurrected I noticed with some embarrassment that I did not post the manual info.

I did yesterday write an emai to Buehler, the current manufacturer of Wilson testers and they sent me a PDF of the manual for my 4Jr. Other models of this era likely are very similar in construction. Unfortunately, there is no way for me to attach the PDF itself. But I would send via email a copy to anyone requesting it. If anyone knows of a convenient way to post the PDF, please let me know and I will do so.

Finally, how many companies are there that both have and will take the time to share a manual on legacy machines? There are a very few. My hat is off to Buehler for doing so.

BTW, the manual is 37 pages in length.

Denis

I posted it on a forum with more room for readable documents, here's a link -
Wilson Rockwell model JR & JS Hardness Tester Instruction Manual | Manufacturing Forums
Thanks Denis.

dgfoster said:

Unfortunately, there is no way for me to attach the PDF itself. But I would send via email a copy to anyone requesting it. If anyone knows of a convenient way to post the PDF, please let me know and I will do so.

Click to expand...

You can attach them to posts just like a photograph. The size limit is pretty small though.

I did send tghe PDF to Mud who posted it on the site he linked. That is good in general but to access the mamnual you ahve to become a member fo the manufacturing forum.

I realize I could post 37 pictures, but image quality here is so marginal that the pages will be barely print legible.


The above is a PrintScreen image copied to paint, save to a folder, opened and croped, saved, and then added here---pretty tedious and not a great result

Denis