Carrier air handler, Model FB4ANF060 (about 1997 vintage). Does one typically replace just the 3/4 hp single phase motor, or the entire (squirrel cage) blower assembly ? Any websites where I might find the part numbers of the motor and/or the entire blower unit ?
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OT- HVAC- air handler blower motor shot
- Thread starter Milacron
- Start date
- Replies 20
- Views 6,505
Dennisrech
Aluminum
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Location
- Olympia WA
Grainger has universal fit replacement motors.
they now sell to anyone on the Internet.
Your motor should have a frame type on the nameplate if it is a belt drive assembly.
If it is a direct drive motor, just get the correct length, rpm, hp and end diameters for the rubble clamps on each end.
Vancbiker
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2014
- Location
- Vancouver, WA. USA
HVAC units often have the start capacitor mounted separate from the motor. It's good practice to replace it when swapping a motor. Typically the new motor will not come with the capacitor.
jlrii
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2007
- Location
- Massachusetts, USA
Expect any Carrier to have an oddball OEM frame. No reason to replace the blower wheel as long as it runs true. I never had any joy with non OEM replacements, they tend to be spindly and awkward to install, although I worked for a Carrier dealer last I installed one so OEM parts were easily available. Easiest puller to I found is this style UP1 Ultimate Fan Blade Hub and Blower Wheel Puller Remover Sensible Products - Join the Pricefalls family - Pricefalls.com Online Marketplace & Stores Those just use setscrews to grab the hub as no groove is usually available on fractional HP motors.
JR
JR
in IE11....SteveF
Titanium
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2004
- Location
- central NC
Don, don't know how universal these blowers might be but a buddy gave me a unit out of a 4 year old system he was replacing. Was going to put it in my barn but discovered it only runs on 240V. If you might be able to use it and will either be up in this area (I live near Mebfab) or want to pay the shipping you can have it. Here's the number on it.
Trane Air Handler Model 4TEC3F36B1000AA
Steve
Trane Air Handler Model 4TEC3F36B1000AA
Steve
Re motor nameplate, yes of course, but to find that out is a 70 mile drive roundtrip......hoping someone has the info via the air handler model number.
metlmunchr
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2004
- Location
- Asheville NC USA
The 060 at the end of the model number indicates that's a 5 ton air handler. The Trane Steve has is a 3 ton, as indicated by the 36 in the model number. The motor in the Trane unit is likely 1/3hp, and possibly 1/2hp, but definitely not big enough to replace your 3/4.
I doubt you'll find any parts breakdown for Carrier stuff online. Mingledorff has a location in Hilton Head. As a Carrier distributor they should be able to get the part number from your model number. They will have a generic replacement motor thru Carrier's Totaline parts distribution network, and the motor should be in their stock.
The price will likely be less than what you'd pay at Grainger, and of course they don't have anyone who can tell you anything about anything past looking up their own part # and telling you whether its in stock or not. Used to be the best place to buy motors, but now among the worst and highest priced IMO. I replaced the motor in my 3.5 ton air handler this past summer (Carrier unit). 1/2 hp motor. $140 at Grainger. $82 at Ferguson Enterprises' HVAC parts store here. Ferguson's nearest parts location to you is in North Charleston, and you'd need the motor in hand to match up. Carrier's parts network should be competitive with Ferguson on generic parts like blower motors.
Most all these motors are 1075rpm, 3 speed, permanent split capacitor. Have you checked the motor yourself, or do you just know it doesn't run? Bad capacitor (a $7 or less item, and easy fix) will keep it from running even if the motor is good. As someone else mentioned, you should replace the cap in any case.
No need to replace anything other than the motor and cap unless you can't get the blower hub off the motor shaft. Usually not a problem, but a real nightmare if the setscrew has loosened and let the wheel gnaw out a self locking ring in the shaft. If that happens, you have to cut out a few of the vanes in the wheel and saw the motor shaft off with a sawzall to separate the two as the wheel has to come out thru the fan scroll discharge rather than coming out as a unit with the motor.
Most any of the generic replacement motors will have a couple extra leads brought out of the motor to allow reversing rotation while the original motor will not have anything external for reversing. Just mentioning this in case you notice the new motor seems to have excess leads.
Carrier normally used a Molex plug mounted on the fan housing for selecting the various speeds used. Best to retain the plug and splice the leads of the new motor into short pigtails coming from the original connector to retain the ability to select different speeds and to keep the wiring in agreement with the factory diagram.
I doubt you'll find any parts breakdown for Carrier stuff online. Mingledorff has a location in Hilton Head. As a Carrier distributor they should be able to get the part number from your model number. They will have a generic replacement motor thru Carrier's Totaline parts distribution network, and the motor should be in their stock.
The price will likely be less than what you'd pay at Grainger, and of course they don't have anyone who can tell you anything about anything past looking up their own part # and telling you whether its in stock or not. Used to be the best place to buy motors, but now among the worst and highest priced IMO. I replaced the motor in my 3.5 ton air handler this past summer (Carrier unit). 1/2 hp motor. $140 at Grainger. $82 at Ferguson Enterprises' HVAC parts store here. Ferguson's nearest parts location to you is in North Charleston, and you'd need the motor in hand to match up. Carrier's parts network should be competitive with Ferguson on generic parts like blower motors.
Most all these motors are 1075rpm, 3 speed, permanent split capacitor. Have you checked the motor yourself, or do you just know it doesn't run? Bad capacitor (a $7 or less item, and easy fix) will keep it from running even if the motor is good. As someone else mentioned, you should replace the cap in any case.
No need to replace anything other than the motor and cap unless you can't get the blower hub off the motor shaft. Usually not a problem, but a real nightmare if the setscrew has loosened and let the wheel gnaw out a self locking ring in the shaft. If that happens, you have to cut out a few of the vanes in the wheel and saw the motor shaft off with a sawzall to separate the two as the wheel has to come out thru the fan scroll discharge rather than coming out as a unit with the motor.
Most any of the generic replacement motors will have a couple extra leads brought out of the motor to allow reversing rotation while the original motor will not have anything external for reversing. Just mentioning this in case you notice the new motor seems to have excess leads.
Carrier normally used a Molex plug mounted on the fan housing for selecting the various speeds used. Best to retain the plug and splice the leads of the new motor into short pigtails coming from the original connector to retain the ability to select different speeds and to keep the wiring in agreement with the factory diagram.
One of the Carolina Air techs actually lives in the same little town where my building is, so he can check out things fairly reasonably without me being there (I rent out the building now) and he pronounced the motor shot. The symptoms as reported by my tenant were smelling smoke whenever the fan tried to come on.
This morning I took my son to the train station in nearby Yemassee so went on from there to Early Branch to take a look and get the handler model info. The capacitor looked fine, the motor did appear suspect...some black melted looking areas but nothing absolutely definitive. Fan part rotated ok by hand but was surprised there was a little resistance (I expected it to rotate many revolutions with just a gentle push...but not so....dunno if that's "how they are" or not)
I didn't think to bring any tools with me other than the little multi tool I keep in my pocket, otherwise I would have removed the cap for testing later. But sounds like it probably is the motor to me...do you agree or could it still be the cap somehow ?
The quote for Carolina Air, parts and labor, to replace the blower was about $1,000* thus my "DIY genes" start to kick in.
*I didn't think to ask if that was just the motor or the whole blower
metlmunchr
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2004
- Location
- Asheville NC USA
About the same symptoms as mine Don. I assume this unit has the fan mounted such that the motor is vertical and mounted at the top. On mine, (in the attic) it sounded like it was running but noisy and smelled hot. Actually just barely turning and growling as it turned. Failed thrust bearing on the shaft end, allowing about 3/8" axial movement in the blower wheel. Would turn with some resistance, and didn't coast like it should.
Changing the motor is easy as long as you don't run into the problem I described above (a rare thing). Most aggravating part is sliding the fan assembly out of the little rails where it mounts as there's a lack of clearance between the assembly and the evaporator coil. Cover the coil face with a couple layers of cardboard to protect it as you remove and replace the fan assy. About a 2 hr job overall including re-wire, etc. Adding an hour for travel, parts plus markup, etc, about half of their quote would be a fair and profitable price.
The residential HVAC repair business is polluted with a bunch of characters who'd make used car peddlers look like bastions of honesty. A couple months ago I fixed a unit for a friend. Gas furnace plus a/c. He'd called the original installer for service (new house bought in 98). They charged him $300 for 2# of R-22 (current cost $10/lb) plus $250 labor for 1.5 hrs on site and about 15 miles total travel.
They told him the evaporator coil had several leaks and was at the end of its life. Also said the heat exchanger in the furnace was bad, and dangerous, so the entire system should be replaced. So they send a sales dork by later that day who quotes $10,000 to replace the system. Took me less than 5 minutes to find the actual leak. Dirty joint made with soft solder on a refrigerant line where silphos should have been used. Since it was already soft soldered, I cleaned it and repaired with Sta Brite #8 silver bearing soft solder. Pumped the condensing unit down prior to taking the refrigerant line loose to clean, so we didn't lose any gas to speak of. Had to add about 2# of gas to account for what had leaked since the prior "service". Checked the furnace, and the heat exchanger looks like new. Took about 2 hours total.
Obviously, the whole attempt to sell a new system was a lie. But, if it did need replacement, I can buy the furnace and outdoor unit for about $2200. Add another $300 for miscellaneous materials, truck expense, etc, and, based on their $10,000 quote, I could clear $7500 in a day and a half tops, with a helper who knows nothing more than how to carry stuff and pick up after me as I work. Totally warped pricing that seemed to come about during the housing bubble, and has not abated since.
Changing the motor is easy as long as you don't run into the problem I described above (a rare thing). Most aggravating part is sliding the fan assembly out of the little rails where it mounts as there's a lack of clearance between the assembly and the evaporator coil. Cover the coil face with a couple layers of cardboard to protect it as you remove and replace the fan assy. About a 2 hr job overall including re-wire, etc. Adding an hour for travel, parts plus markup, etc, about half of their quote would be a fair and profitable price.
The residential HVAC repair business is polluted with a bunch of characters who'd make used car peddlers look like bastions of honesty. A couple months ago I fixed a unit for a friend. Gas furnace plus a/c. He'd called the original installer for service (new house bought in 98). They charged him $300 for 2# of R-22 (current cost $10/lb) plus $250 labor for 1.5 hrs on site and about 15 miles total travel.
They told him the evaporator coil had several leaks and was at the end of its life. Also said the heat exchanger in the furnace was bad, and dangerous, so the entire system should be replaced. So they send a sales dork by later that day who quotes $10,000 to replace the system. Took me less than 5 minutes to find the actual leak. Dirty joint made with soft solder on a refrigerant line where silphos should have been used. Since it was already soft soldered, I cleaned it and repaired with Sta Brite #8 silver bearing soft solder. Pumped the condensing unit down prior to taking the refrigerant line loose to clean, so we didn't lose any gas to speak of. Had to add about 2# of gas to account for what had leaked since the prior "service". Checked the furnace, and the heat exchanger looks like new. Took about 2 hours total.
Obviously, the whole attempt to sell a new system was a lie. But, if it did need replacement, I can buy the furnace and outdoor unit for about $2200. Add another $300 for miscellaneous materials, truck expense, etc, and, based on their $10,000 quote, I could clear $7500 in a day and a half tops, with a helper who knows nothing more than how to carry stuff and pick up after me as I work. Totally warped pricing that seemed to come about during the housing bubble, and has not abated since.
wheels17
Stainless
- Joined
- May 10, 2012
- Location
- Pittsford, NY
I second metlmunchr's assessment of the residential HVAC folks. I had my ignitor crack on a Sunday. Too cold out to wait till Monday. I can understand the $109 trip charge on a Sunday, but charging $159 for a hot surface igniter that is $28 on the internet and $42 at the local hardware store really frosted me.
The worst part is that when I called, I gave them the part number and they assured me they had one on the truck. Not true. The guy only had a generic one that wouldn't fit the opening on the furnace. He was stumped. When I pulled out my nibblers and opened up the hole by about 1/8" he was amazed. He'd never seen nibblers. Some HVAC guy.
The worst part is that when I called, I gave them the part number and they assured me they had one on the truck. Not true. The guy only had a generic one that wouldn't fit the opening on the furnace. He was stumped. When I pulled out my nibblers and opened up the hole by about 1/8" he was amazed. He'd never seen nibblers. Some HVAC guy.
Mark in Indiana
Aluminum
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2014
- Location
- Southern Indiana, USA
I've replaced several fan motors. Just take the old one into a HVAC supplier to match up your old one. Most motors have an extended shaft. Cut if needed. Very important, coat the shaft with antiseize during reassembly.
The blower motor died on our furnace a little over a year ago. Of course it was on a weekend and on a real cold day. We have a pretty cool hvac guy in the same industrial complex as the shop. He told me a trick to get us by until he could get there. He said to turn the blower on on the thermostat, then turn the switch off at the furnace. Give the blower a spin and turn the switch back on. He said its harder to start from a dead stop and if it worked to just leave the blower on until he could replace it. It worked and ran fine until he was able to replace it. He just replaced the motor, but had me clean the squirrel cage while he swapped it. Probably to keep me from asking a bunch of questions.
Ours smelled like smoke too, but I think it was dust burning off the heat exchanger because there was no airflow from the blower. The furnace was shutting off due to over temperature.
That hvac guy was great, but he retired soon after he replaced the blower motor. A few times I called him he told me how to fix my problem myself. Wish he was still around.
Vancbiker
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2014
- Location
- Vancouver, WA. USA
Bad cap will kill a new motor. It will either not start or be very sluggish in starting. This causes very high current draw through the motor. It won't tolerate that for long.
Since if I recall correctly "central dogpatch" is beaufort, then take the old one into either:
[h=3]Authorized Appliance Parts & Service Inc or[/h]
[h=3]Appliance Parts of Beaufort.[/h]
If they are anything like the appliance parts place near me they will see you come in the door with it and go back and have the replacement in their hand by the time you get to the counter. I think this may be where the old time auto parts guys went. There is HUGE commonality in appliance parts.
[h=3]Authorized Appliance Parts & Service Inc or[/h]
[h=3]Appliance Parts of Beaufort.[/h]
If they are anything like the appliance parts place near me they will see you come in the door with it and go back and have the replacement in their hand by the time you get to the counter. I think this may be where the old time auto parts guys went. There is HUGE commonality in appliance parts.
See post no. 7..... the unit is in Early Branch, SC a 70 mile round trip drive from/to Beaufort, SC.... would like to have correct motor with me on next trip out there to avoid two trips.
(on edit) Nevermind...found the part numbers HC45AE198 for the motor alone, 316804-790 complete blower assembly with motor...and CAP011503O, capacitor !
As an aside, just talked with tenant on phone and he said the tech told him the blower was seized when he first examined it.. he then un seized it, but it still wouldn't work... so that explains the motor burn out...bearings gone bad. Actually even if the motor would still work I should think it has to be replaced ASAP since if it seized up once it would surely happen again very soon....and not worth the labor of changing the motor bearings only.
Motor prices....typical about $350 from dealer, as low as $110 on eBay for NOS in "completed listings" but around $250 with free shipping more typical. Capacitor about $14.
metlmunchr
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2004
- Location
- Asheville NC USA
The Carrier parts people should know whether that motor is replaceable by their generic 3/4hp one. One thing we ran into in the business is that a specific OE replacement can cost 2x or more the price of a generic, and its not unusual to find that the generic is a superior motor to the OE one. We were a Carrier dealer for over 40 yrs and seldom bought an OE motor unless it was an oddball that wasn't available as a generic.
At that price, is that a motor for a variable speed air handler by chance? That's the only reason I can think of for that sort of price level.
One other thought..... Those motors typically have sleeve bearings and are supposed to be re-oiled every 5 years. Have to pull the motor to re-oil in most cases, but that may take care of the problem if there's no significant end play in the shaft to indicate a thrust bearing failure.
4 speed motor. Based on your tip I called the local HVAC supply (McCalls) and they have "US Motors 5471 Rescue" that should work for only $114 ! What do you think....will that for sure work as direct replacement for the Carrier HC45AE198 ?
McCalls does not have the capacitor however....they say it "needs a 20"... does that mean 20uF and if so are they all the same size, mount ?
metlmunchr
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2004
- Location
- Asheville NC USA
A 3/4hp motor in this application typically uses either a 15 or 20 microfarad, 370 volt, run capacitor. They're oval shaped, about 1.25 x 2 oval and 2.5 to 3 inches long. On Carrier units they typically mount in a sheetmetal clamp that's attached to the fan housing a few inches from the motor power connector. All the ones I've run across are close enough to the same size that they'll mount back in the same clamp.
Can I say with absolute certainty that the US Motors motor will work on your unit? No, but probably a 98% likelihood. IIRC, these motors have a 48Y frame which should nail down the motor OD. Typical mounting is a ring that encircles the motor housing and captures 3 bent legs which attach to the top of the fan housing with some vibration isolators, so there's not any specific bolt pattern or similar characteristic that would prevent mounting. If the motor diameter is good, it should work. FWIW, US Motors is the most common brand of generic replacement blower motor out there today, and I've never had any problems that would indicate they're less than equal to OE motors.
You never actually use but 2 speeds on the motor regardless of whether its a 3 or 4 speed. The 5 ton is using a 4 speed to allow use on medium high for cooling in case the duct resistance is too low to allow use on high speed. Contrary to logic, this type of fan will overload the motor if the external resistance is too low rather than too high. With the typical ductwork of a house or office, the motor can run on high speed. If you hang the same unit in a shop with a short run of low resistance duct, then you'd need to reduce the speed to medium high. When heating, the fan always runs on one of the lower speeds. The fan size and motor hp is such on the smaller units, 4 tons and down, that they won't normally overload even with an open discharge so they can normally get by with a 3 speed. But a motor of this type with more than 3/4hp would be a definite special, so they go to 4 speeds to allow use of the 3/4hp in all conditions with the 5 ton unit.
Can I say with absolute certainty that the US Motors motor will work on your unit? No, but probably a 98% likelihood. IIRC, these motors have a 48Y frame which should nail down the motor OD. Typical mounting is a ring that encircles the motor housing and captures 3 bent legs which attach to the top of the fan housing with some vibration isolators, so there's not any specific bolt pattern or similar characteristic that would prevent mounting. If the motor diameter is good, it should work. FWIW, US Motors is the most common brand of generic replacement blower motor out there today, and I've never had any problems that would indicate they're less than equal to OE motors.
You never actually use but 2 speeds on the motor regardless of whether its a 3 or 4 speed. The 5 ton is using a 4 speed to allow use on medium high for cooling in case the duct resistance is too low to allow use on high speed. Contrary to logic, this type of fan will overload the motor if the external resistance is too low rather than too high. With the typical ductwork of a house or office, the motor can run on high speed. If you hang the same unit in a shop with a short run of low resistance duct, then you'd need to reduce the speed to medium high. When heating, the fan always runs on one of the lower speeds. The fan size and motor hp is such on the smaller units, 4 tons and down, that they won't normally overload even with an open discharge so they can normally get by with a 3 speed. But a motor of this type with more than 3/4hp would be a definite special, so they go to 4 speeds to allow use of the 3/4hp in all conditions with the 5 ton unit.
fish123
Cast Iron
- Joined
- May 4, 2008
- Location
- Deplorable Conditions, Fl.
The first time my HVAC blower motor gave trouble after 10 years service, I took to to a local motor place.
They rebuilt the G.E. motor, lasted another 10 years after.
The most recent failure, they did not want to rebuild it again, sold me a "universal" "U.S. Motor".
I had to cut & weld up the frame brackets to make it fit, but after 2 years, good.
Wonder if rebuilding small blower motors is now a "lost art", like so many other things we have seen pass.
They rebuilt the G.E. motor, lasted another 10 years after.
The most recent failure, they did not want to rebuild it again, sold me a "universal" "U.S. Motor".
I had to cut & weld up the frame brackets to make it fit, but after 2 years, good.
Wonder if rebuilding small blower motors is now a "lost art", like so many other things we have seen pass.
