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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDegenhart View Post
    Time to go back to school, Bill. Einstein published his paper establishing E=MC sq in 1905. Meitner, Otto Hahn and Otto Robert Frisch led the small group of scientists who first discovered nuclear fission of uranium when it absorbed an extra neutron; the results were published in early 1939.

    Tom
    Mea culpa, I have demonstrated the folly of failing to check facts. It occurred to me to look up the chronology but I didn't bother and have been dully chastised.

    A better statement would be that when Otto Hahn measured the products of nuclear fission and found that they did not add up to the weight of the original material, she with Otto Frisch calculated the energy resulting from the loss of mass, producing concrete proof of Einstein's theory. Hahn got a Nobel prize. She didn't. There were numerous other indignities along the way although she apparently was much better regarded by the scientific community than the public at large.

    Bill

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  3. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    Show me the scientist who discovers a cure for cancer, or how to prevent Down Syndrome. Now that son of a bitch deserves an award. He's done something useful and it can be proven 'real' time and time over. But the team of goofballs who offer up a photo of something no one will ever be able to verify? Not so impressive.
    This just illustrates how much out of touch with reality you are. There is not "a cancer cure" because the term is a catchall for a large group of uncontrolled cell growth maladies. As to curing one of them, recently a woman had stage 4, metastasizing breast cancer, normally a death sentence. A doctor looked at the various T cells she was producing and found that there were four that were attacking the cancer but not in great enough numbers to do any good. He isolated the most promising of those cells and artificially cultured them, growing a large number of them which he then injected her. Today she is cancer free, cured by augmenting her own defense.

    Gene therapy has been going on for quite a while. There are techniques for attaching a gene to an otherwise harmless virus and infecting the creature with a new gene. A Chinese scientist recently disabled a gene that makes people vulnerable to the HIV virus in twin infants. He is facing serious backlash for experimenting on humans. It is entirely possible that a method of knocking out the extra 21st chromosome can be developed. One problem is the adage that you cannot change any one thing. The disabled gene in the Chinese children also affects intelligence, so no one is sure how they will come out.

    Bill

  4. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    The bottom line is it ain't all it's cracked up to be. As I've said, had it been reported that the scientists came up with something they are confident is an image of a black hole, I'd be fine with that. But...instead we get a lot of bluster, back-patting, and finality to it.
    In which of the six papers did you find that? Please quote it, for us "schoolchildren".

    You did read them, right? Any of them? Even one of them? Even a page from one of them?

    Focus on the First Event Horizon Telescope Results - The Astrophysical Journal Letters - IOPscience



    First M87 Event Horizon Telescope Results. I. The Shadow of the Supermassive Black Hole
    The Event Horizon Telescope Collaboration et al. 2019 ApJL 875 L1

    First M87 Event Horizon Telescope Results. II. Array and Instrumentation
    The Event Horizon Telescope Collaboration et al. 2019 ApJL 875 L2

    First M87 Event Horizon Telescope Results. III. Data Processing and Calibration
    The Event Horizon Telescope Collaboration et al. 2019 ApJL 875 L3

    First M87 Event Horizon Telescope Results. IV. Imaging the Central Supermassive Black Hole
    The Event Horizon Telescope Collaboration et al. 2019 ApJL 875 L4

    First M87 Event Horizon Telescope Results. V. Physical Origin of the Asymmetric Ring
    The Event Horizon Telescope Collaboration et al. 2019 ApJL 875 L5

    First M87 Event Horizon Telescope Results. VI. The Shadow and Mass of the Central Black Hole
    The Event Horizon Telescope Collaboration et al. 2019 ApJL 875 L6

  5. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glug View Post
    In which of the six papers did you find that? Please quote it, for us "schoolchildren".

    You did read them, right? Any of them? Even one of them? Even a page from one of them?
    His version of “its been reported” is the shadows on the cave wall from Fox News and trucker radio.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    More importantly he claimed an “agenda” without any clarification of what he thinks it is.
    Well...
    What, exactly, is that “agenda” Greg?
    Black Holes Matter, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy2 View Post
    Fourth item is that the processed data set represents a real time image. That means that the image is not being promoted as the past or future.
    Boy is that stretching the definition of real-time ! I mean, what they are looking at happened 53.49 million years ago

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    "Black holes matter".......says tomato coupe......now that makes me laugh.....it is so anti PC that TC will probably be dammed on a multitude of liberal forums.

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    [QUOTE=GregSY;3345526]

    "Show me the scientist who discovers a cure for cancer,"

    It's like talkint to a *kid*. Several types of cancer HAVE been cured. You don't know which ones they are,
    or the teams who acomplished the work, do you? You have the entire interwebs at your disposal and all
    you can do is dengrated the teams that did a difficult science job. OOoh. Money. OOOooh. PR bullshit. ETc.

    Your assigment: discover those cancers with a known cure, and the folks who did the work. Don't bother
    trying to say they're full of bluster and PR once you figure this out.

  12. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post

    ************
    QUOTE=GregSY;3345526

    "Show me the scientist who discovers a cure for cancer,"

    ************

    It's like talkint to a *kid*. Several types of cancer HAVE been cured. You don't know which ones they are,
    or the teams who acomplished the work, do you? You have the entire interwebs at your disposal and all
    you can do is dengrated the teams that did a difficult science job. OOoh. Money. OOOooh. PR bullshit. ETc.
    Yeah. Those scientists, what do they know?

    HIV used to cure 'bubble boy' disease - BBC News

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Yeah. Those scientists, what do they know?

    HIV used to cure 'bubble boy' disease - BBC News
    This is trippy but it should not have been done. Did you notice this was the second child born to these people with that disease ? Mom Nature is telling them not to reproduce. Adopt, assholes.

    If I hit my dick with a rubber hammer and it hurts, the lesson is don't do that ! not "get a softer hammer."

    This child will now pass on that tendency when Darwin would have weeded him out.

    Long-term, a lot of this stuff is wrong. There are 7 billion people. We don't need no more. Earth is full.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post

    Long-term, a lot of this stuff is wrong. There are 7 billion people. We don't need no more. Earth is full.
    I touched on this a bit in the Notre Dame thread, I figure it's about as third-rail as such subjects get so I'll mostly leave it. But I have no issue with a couple with dominant traits trying to have a child, and if there's issues trying to fix them.

    If we start banning such people, we're enacting eugenics - and that's a path we should avoid. And the implications for disease fixes from the basic technique are huge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    This is trippy but it should not have been done. Did you notice this was the second child born to these people with that disease ? Mom Nature is telling them not to reproduce. Adopt, assholes.

    If I hit my dick with a rubber hammer and it hurts, the lesson is don't do that ! not "get a softer hammer."

    This child will now pass on that tendency when Darwin would have weeded him out.

    Long-term, a lot of this stuff is wrong. There are 7 billion people. We don't need no more. Earth is
    full.
    That's easy for you to say but say that to a parent with one of these issues. You might get a different reaction. "Ah shot, that ones defect. Throw it out and lets try again". Not the same as finding a bad part in manufacturing because of broken tool bit.

    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    I touched on this a bit in the Notre Dame thread, I figure it's about as third-rail as such subjects get so I'll mostly leave it. But I have no issue with a couple with dominant traits trying to have a child, and if there's issues trying to fix them.

    If we start banning such people, we're enacting eugenics - and that's a path we should avoid. And the implications for disease fixes from the basic technique are huge.
    Diversity is important.
    Monocultures are fragile.

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    It would be interesting to see an "image" of the same location in space taken through the Hubble Space Telescope. (Use all of the multi-spectral, UV-NIR, capabilities of the HST camera)

    Would the black hole appear as a "VERY DARK SPOT" ? Or would bent light reduce the singularity to just another location in the canvas of veiling glare at the beginnings of time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    It would be interesting to see an "image" of the same location in space taken through the Hubble Space Telescope. (Use all of the multi-spectral, UV-NIR, capabilities of the HST camera)

    Would the black hole appear as a "VERY DARK SPOT" ? Or would bent light reduce the singularity to just another location in the canvas of veiling glare at the beginnings of time?
    I don't believe the Hubble cameras have the resolution to see anything like a BH at that distance. We have to remember that the whole point of the accumulated data observation was that it replicated a giant "mirror" (not a mirror, but effectively) the size of the Earth, where Hubble's mirror is only about 2.4 meters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    This is trippy but it should not have been done. Did you notice this was the second child born to these people with that disease ? Mom Nature is telling them not to reproduce. Adopt, assholes.
    If Mother Nature were to tell someone something, she might tell you to read more carefully. Different child, different parents.

    The case of David Vetter is perhaps the most famous case of severe combined immunodeficiency (SCID), a disease that made it impossible for him to engage with the world outside a plastic chamber.

    Nicknamed "Bubble Boy", Vetter was born in 1971 with the disease and died at the age of 12 after a failed bone marrow transplant.

    His parents had already lost one child to the disease before he was born.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    It would be interesting to see an "image" of the same location in space taken through the Hubble Space Telescope. (Use all of the multi-spectral, UV-NIR, capabilities of the HST camera)

    Would the black hole appear as a "VERY DARK SPOT" ? Or would bent light reduce the singularity to just another location in the canvas of veiling glare at the beginnings of time?
    m87.jpg

    This is a Hubble image of M87 from 2010.

    The problem is that as much as Hubble can see, it does not have the ability to resolve the black hole.

    The black hole is much smaller than what Hubble can even detect much less resolve.

    The Hubble mirror is 2.4M. The size of the sensor array used for the black hole image is close to the diameter of the earth. You can make up for signal sensor size by increasing signal collection time (allow more time to fill the photon bucket) however increasing signal strength does not increase the ability to resolve the details.

    The Hubble image sensors are also not suited to the low frequency IR. The image we have been discussing is from radio telescope sensors not even close to the visible frequencies.

    The use of the lower frequencies enables us to see through the dust in the galactic center, revealing the details of the desired object.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    I don't believe the Hubble cameras have the resolution to see anything like a BH at that distance. We have to remember that the whole point of the accumulated data observation was that it replicated a giant "mirror" (not a mirror, but effectively) the size of the Earth, where Hubble's mirror is only about 2.4 meters.
    Yes, that is why it would be interesting to take a PHOTOGRAPH of the location.
    To appease the sensations. After all, The object certainly should not "look like" a galaxy or a nebula etc.

    eta

    There, Ziggy2 has posted an "image" for all skeptics to enjoy.

    It shows the same level of detail that one might imagine on a "real life image". ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    Agenda? duh. It's plain old Rock Star agenda 101. It's no different than when you see a concert review 'Beyonce knocked it out of the park last night!' when you know she probably sucked (after all, she's Beyonce) and the dope who wrote the review is a fan and not someone interested in a rational perspective. It's the constant over-hyping of the often dubious achievement.

    There are two suspicious parties here:

    1) The media/reporters - I hardly need to go into why they'd want to fluff up this 'acheivement'. But for the children reading this, I'll say that it speaks to their general ongoing AGENDA of generational advancement and liberal reward. In case you haven't noticed, most scientists are produced by, and hang around, the center of all liberalism - universties.
    So if liberalism is the belief of the educated, is conservatism the belief of the ignorant? Looks like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    Yes, that is why it would be interesting to take a PHOTOGRAPH of the location.
    To appease the sensations. After all, The object certainly should not "look like" a galaxy or a nebula etc.

    eta

    There, Ziggy2 has posted an "image" for all skeptics to enjoy.

    It shows the same level of detail that one might imagine on a "real life image". ;-)
    If you look at M87 through a moderate sized optical telescope such as a 12in. cassegrain, you will also see the same image. Just smaller, fainter, and with less detail.


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