OT: Loss of a major astronomical instrument - Goodbye, Arecibo - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    An asteroid hit is kind of the least of my worries, frankly.

    There have been qty (0) in recorded history.

    If one comes, lets all pray it splits and heads for DC and Downing Street.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    An asteroid hit is kind of the least of my worries, frankly.

    There have been qty (0) in recorded history.
    Depends how you mean recorded. Gulf of Mexico and extinction of the dinosaurs was a pretty big hit.

    Not that humans could have done anything about that, but still. There's a record. A big one.

    And a lot of smaller ones, come to think of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    An asteroid hit is kind of the least of my worries, frankly.

    There have been qty (0) in recorded history.

    If one comes, lets all pray it splits and heads for DC and Downing Street.
    So the whole damn taxpayers funded trip was because of a few high level hoovermint officials
    that should have been removed & committed to the nut ward for paranoid delusions of their own "Death by asteroids" ?....

    If the USofA was, in fact "run like a company" this little "line item expenditure" would have been
    shot down day 1 as "low returns on investment".

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    So the whole damn taxpayers funded trip was because of a few high level hoovermint officials
    that should have been removed & committed to the nut ward for paranoid delusions of their own "Death by asteroids" ?....
    No, that's ChipSplitter's interpretation. There are possibly other ways of looking at Arecibo.

    If the USofA was, in fact "run like a company" this little "line item expenditure" would have been
    shot down day 1 as "low returns on investment".
    And then you wouldn't have the transistor or the laser. Bell Labs, for one example, used to do pure research, no commercial value in mind. A whole lot of good stuff came out of that. Maybe most of the good stuff we have came from pure, no-commercial-motivation, research.

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    Sounds like Goldstone can do the work of Arecibo, which probably explains in part why Arecibo was allowed to fall into such disrepair.

    Maybe the situation isn't quite so dire.. no falling sky.. no asteroid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    No, that's ChipSplitter's interpretation. There are possibly other ways of looking at Arecibo.


    And then you wouldn't have the transistor or the laser. Bell Labs, for one example, used to do pure research, no commercial value in mind. A whole lot of good stuff came out of that. Maybe most of the good stuff we have came from pure, no-commercial-motivation, research.
    The transistor was directly paid for by the WO of "better & cheaper".
    It was wanted to provide longer service than tubes, and directly relates to "cheaper"
    And the "better" is by less failures, less power draw.

    Try reading the book about Bell labs.
    https://www.amazon.com/Idea-Factory-...-1&tag=mh0b-20

    The Laser was simply "improved" by Bell labs, for the end result of using light waves for higher density phone calls.

    How about spending the money & resources on finding a cure for cancer & alz ?

    Lot shorter payback timeline eh ?
    Helps more people per dollar spent eh ?

    You wanted the hoovermint to be "run like a business" and there you go.

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    EG, I said recorded history. Were you there to see it?

    I'm not arguing that it didn't happen. I'm not a socialist that denies history, ya know........

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    An asteroid hit is kind of the least of my worries, frankly.

    There have been qty (0) in recorded history.

    If one comes, lets all pray it splits and heads for DC and Downing Street.
    look up Tunguska and the more recent Chelyabinsk one, both exploded in atmosphere - these are just 2 in last 100 years, so there is a record in quite a recent history

    I'm not saying Arecibo is essential, from what I understood from few vids I watched about it, is that it was the only one capable of precise radar measurements far enough*, the next largest one has 1/3 of the capability, though they can cover quite a bit more of the sky compared to Arecibo, which had quite a limited view

    * "far enough" is important for our current ability when/if we do spot an asteroid on its way to hit Earth, because we need a lot of time to be able to prepare means and deliver them to the target to nudge it enough to make a difference

    had Tunguska or Chelyabinsk happened somewhere in the western world, I suspect the funding would have already been there to look for these things, instead of solar roadways or some other nonsense

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    Seems the flood story, aka Noah and the apparent flood in other cultures was the result of a cataclysm melting the icecap, Greenland or whatever, so I suppose the Old Testament counts as recorded history?, there’s lots of weird anomalies, KT boundary, the denovian (and other) extinction, whils not written down is “recorded” sort of, all coal is 350m years old, freaky, all the dinosaurs gone in one go, odd, evolution must have been faster than I thought!
    The more questions I think I got to just gives 10 times more.
    It’s a shame Aricibo collapsed, however the Chinese got the chance to copy it before it went, there’s probably a casting at the focal point with SETI cast in
    Mark

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    It is indeed a shame that the decision was made to just let it rot.

    In my estimation it will never be rebuilt, at least in our lifetime, as there no longer seems to be a serious focus on such things.

    It is sad to live in a time where the best years for some technology were yesterday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    It is indeed a shame that the decision was made to just let it rot.
    Maybe, or maybe not ... Dr Frankenstein's laboratory is an interesting historical artifact, but maybe not up to today's research needs

    If it were really useful today, pretty sure we'd hear some shrieks from the astronomy community, but I haven't heard any. It seems to be mostly nostalgia.

    As far as being a DEW line for asteroid collisions, maybe not such a good use of resources

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    look up Tunguska and the more recent Chelyabinsk one
    There must be an asteroid magnet in Siberia or something.

    That was one heck of a shockwave.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    EG, I said recorded history. Were you there to see it?

    I'm not arguing that it didn't happen. I'm not a socialist that denies history, ya know........
    Impact event - Wikipedia.

    What are you? A flat earther? Not a globe unless I see it?

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    we have a number of these on this forum



    dee
    ;-D

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    Heh. Someone could post a thread on how puppies and kittens are cute, and we'd get 50% of the replies being "No, they're not!".

    To restate: To the best of my knowledge (which leans heavily on guys like Scott Manley) NO other astronomical observatory remains that had the capacity to see dim, low albedo (low reflectance) asteroids or similar objects as Arecibo had.

    This is (again) because no other facility could "illuminate" with radar waves (up to 1MW of energy) or steer the beam to broaden the search area. So we can see things with brighter surfaces, or closer, but to find dim, distant objects is now much harder. Or to map the surfaces, giving a better idea of size and rotation.

    Just coincidentally, you guys have heard about the mission to Bennu, and materials return to Earth?

    NASA Uses Pogo Stick Probe to Retrieve Sample from Asteroid That May One Day Hit Earth

    Part of the mission is to try to understand early conditions of the Earth, due to the material being close to what existed as our planet was being formed from coalescing materials, but part is also the understanding of composition of the asteroid from a strength and stability standpoint.

    This is so scientists can figure out if a nuke could steer the rock away (reasonably solid) , or just transform it into buckshot (loose grouping of smaller rocks that would scatter).

    Yes, there's other things out there that could get us, a GRB (Gamma Ray Burst) that's close enough and is unfortunately aimed right at us (they're not a spherical energy release, more of a beam due to magnetic directing), and yes, curing cancer, Alzheimer's, and toe fungus would be great too.

    But there's plenty of huge craters left on this planet to make clear that the occasional large rock or comet can sometimes swing by to say "hello". And if we know about it sooner, like years, there's a better change we can put out an unwelcome mat, change the street signs, and get an unlisted address, rather than just turning off the lights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    Impact event - Wikipedia.

    What are you? A flat earther? Not a globe unless I see it?
    No, I'm not a flat earther. I have the radical belief that statistics matter.......

    None of those was an existential threat. (Also note that I said asteroid hit. The recent ones were meteorites....)

    The 2013 Chelyabinsk meteor event is the only known such incident in modern times to result in numerous injuries. Its meteor is the largest recorded object to have encountered the Earth since the Tunguska event.
    IMHO, we have waaay more important things to worry about than asteroids.

    Chances of death...1 in 250,000. Meteorites, Impacts, & Mass Extinction

    You have a 1 in 15,300 chance of being hit by lightning in your lifetime (with a 10% fatality rate). How Dangerous is Lightning?

    I think I'll start carrying a personal lightning rod before I worry about asteroids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    I think I'll start carrying a personal lightning rod before I worry about asteroids.


    MMmm...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    MMmm...
    Heh........

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    Something better will get built with better tech. Goldstone will more than do for now. Time and tech moves on.. no need to cry in your beers. Interesting how scientific types can get so mucky yucky and lose the forest for the trees... pass the hanky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    YouTube is really pretty good that way. There are some really passionate people on there that have some really good and educational info. And strangely some of them have leveraged their YouTube fame into getting some pretty good access to some pretty interesting things. I've been hitting up the 'Everyday Astronaut' lately, and I'm a fan of Dr. Becky (and she's not a shrink, she's an astro physicist). And for sleeping David Butler, interesting stuff, but his voice is calm and soothing.

    On my bucket list is to calculate the speed of light from scratch, using nothing more than a telescope, a protractor, a watch and a calculator. Of course I've already cheated because I know how to do it, but *I* want to actually do it, and see how close I can get.
    If you like to watch/listen to this kind of thing on YT, you should check this guy out, he's one of my favourite channels of all topics and uploads new videos very frequently.

    He made this video on Arecibo about a week ago after it was announced that it was going to be demolished.


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