OT New diesel generator won't start

M-Box · Feb 28, 2011

Hey all!

At work we recently bought a 4900 Watt air cooled diesel generator with an electric start. This generator is probably the cheapest generator on the market and is and "ETQ" brand, they do not have a website, and the English instructions are poorly translated and lack illustrations. Yesterday we filled it up with diesel and tried to start it using a portable battery Jump starter in place of the real battery that it should have.

...And it won't start....So far We have:
-Followed the starting instructions to the word
-tried starting the generator with the pull start and with the electric stater
-turned on the glow plugs 2-3 and 30 seconds
-Fuel is flowing to the engine
-No spark (

)
-I was told by another contestant that fuel was coming out of the injector
-Won't run for any amount of time
-It appears to be cranking

The engine is located in an unheated garage and the weather has been in the 40's and 50's

I have exhausted all the possibilities that I know of but I'm unfamiliar with diesel engines so I was wondering if anyone here had any more options that I could try and things to check. Are there any additives or operations that could convince this infernal machine to be more cooperative? Would pointing a parabolic heat dish at the generator help it start? What about starting fluid?

It was a poor idea to buy this piece of junk and unfortunately we can't return it or throw it away so we have to make due with it.

4GSR · Feb 28, 2011

Does it have spark plugs? If so, they miss labeled it as a diesel instead of a gasloine engine. :eek:

Sounds like there is air trapped in the fuel line between the injector pump and the injectors? Have to break open a line on the injector to bleed out air. This will also tell you if the injector pump is working too. Be extremily careful and not get puncured by high pressure oil! It will kill you!

Timing could be off too!

If that don't work, pull the injectors and take to diesl shop and have them tested or replaced.

Bout as far as I can help.

Ken

tailstock · Feb 28, 2011

I hate to ask, but is there any oil in the base. most of them have a low oil shutdoff and will not start unless the oil is up.

metlmunchr · Feb 28, 2011

If a diesel is getting fuel thru the injectors and not starting, it should be puffing out clouds of white smoke. No white smoke would indicate either no fuel or the injector are sorta peeing the fuel out rather than spraying it as they should.

As Ken said, crack the line at the injector and crank to see if fuel gets there. Diesels using a high pressure pump will not self prime if there's air in the h/p lines. Some small diesels also have a manual pump for priming the main injector pump. Diesels also typically have one or more fuel filters between the tank and the injector pump, as a diesel won't handle the trash or water that's commonly in fuel. Normally the filter would be either a spin on or a canister type, and in either case should have an air vent on the top to vent the air out and make sure the filters are full of fuel.

I fooled around one day and let a 125 KW generator I've got run out of fuel. It has a 6 cylinder diesel. And about 5 hours later, I finally got the last of the air out of everything and got the critter to start again.

abarnsley · Feb 28, 2011

A friend has exact same one.

No sparkplugs on a diesel...

I seem to remember there was a lever or switch, that HAS to be reset each and every start. Probably oil pressure override.

Not an obvious front panel item..

No white smoke = no fuel = no go .

I DO work on diesels... Try SLIGHTLY loosening High pressure fuel line at injector (not return line from injector) while cranking, fuel should come out in spurts, if it is foamy, let it crank until it has just a few bubbles. Tighten fitting and it should start putting white smoke out/start.

Cranking speed is important also. Use a fresh car battery, not a charger...

Starting fluid can knock out precups, glow plugs, and damage piston ring grooves.. (We only use it on tired old engines, and they get addicted. and will only start on ether)

A parabolic heater aimed at upper cylinder (not too close) might help a little, but with no white smoke, you are not getting fuel.

Johann Ohnesorg · Feb 28, 2011

First thing that comes to mind when you say new is have the fuel lines be bled? If not, there´s air in the injectors and the air is compessed, no injection this way.

aussiebushman · Feb 28, 2011

I'm new to the forum, but not to Diesels and the following might help:

1. You should not need an external battery- there will be one built in. If the engine is cranking, this is not the problem
2. Check the sump oil level. If low, the auto cutout will prevent the engine starting
3. Is the Diesel fuel fresh? If it has been sitting around for a considerable time, get a fresh supply, drain the tank and refill. Then open the nipple at the injector and crank to remove all of the old fuel.
4. The most common problem with any Diesel is air in the line. With the fuel cock open, start at the injector end, crack the nipple with a spanner and crank the engine. A bit of paper under the nipple helps you to see what is coming out. There should be a spurt of clear Diesel oil, without foamy air bubbles. If there is no fuel coming out at all, repeat the process further up the fuel line until you get a fuel flow. Assuming fuel is coming from the nipple, keep cranking (in short bursts) until the fuel runs clear. Make sure you tighten the nipple after each burst to prevent air sucking back into the line

Hope this helps

Alan

gnorbury · Feb 28, 2011

Basically a diesel engine needs fuel, air and compression to run. Take away any one of those and you get no fire.

Typically you'd need 350-400psi compression to achieve enough heat to burn atomized diesel, which means hand starting is a real treat. For this reason, many small diesels with a hand start capability are fitted with compression release levers (valve depressors). Take a look around near the cylinder head and see if you can locate one, and if so make sure it is set correctly.

Edit: looking at your photo, there is something shaped suspiciously like a compression release on the left side of the valve cover. The other thing to check the black lever (manual shutoff) above the yellow oil filler.

wgnrr1 · Feb 28, 2011

I would check everything everyone else suggested. One thing I come across with locomotives that have been sitting for an extended period of time is compression. The oil on the cylinder wall will run off and not give you enough compression. If it is possible, squirt a little oil in each cylinder. That will conciderably increase compression. On a 16-567 you will think you have good batteries untill you add oil. It makes that much difference.

Good Luck
Josh

augoldminer · Feb 28, 2011

Remove the air filter and spray WD40 in the air intake as you crank it.

The oil on the cylinder wall will run off and not give you enough compression.

The rings have not seated on a new engine and the WD40 will help seal them till it starts.
and WD40 will burn in the engine giving it fuel.

It should fire.

Heating the cylinder with a heat gun makes it easier to start.

I found one little diesel generator from china one time that had the timing 180º out.
The injector was pulsing on the exhaust stroke. it would run with me spraying WD40 but would not without.

Also check the low oil pressure sensor with a ohm meter it should show open with no oil pressure and closed when cranking.

If you get it started run it for a while to let the rings seat and it will start better next time.

Ken Jones · Feb 28, 2011

If you can pull the rope starter, you probably have a compression release active. On my Titan I cannot pull the start rope without releasing the compression< pulling the ropeand
setting the compression release to run. Almost a two man job,much easer with aa battery. Even with a battery I release the compression and get it rolling, then set it to run.
Hope this helps

Ken

J. Randall · Feb 28, 2011

+1 on the WD-40, shoot it directly in the intake while cranking it over, it will run on it, and not as harmful as starting fluid.
James

M-Box · Mar 2, 2011

Sorry to resurrect this thread but I'd like to thank everyone for their help. I tried spraying WD-40 into the intake and It appeared to run for one cycle.

I disconnected the fuel line going into the injector and found that there is no fuel squirting out when I crank the engine so no fuel is our problem.

I'm going to try and find out why the fuel pump is not pumping fuel, there is fuel in the line coming from the tank and on the pump side when I disconnect the first nut for the compression fitting and remove the line I do not see fuel coming out when I crank, if I loosen second nut on the compression fitting enough fuel flows out freely from the tank. Is there supposed to be some sweet spot where this 2nd is just tight enough where fuel will flow but not enough that it oozes out on the floor. Or could it be the injector does not work and I should give up trying to fix the generator and run off to join the coast guard?

magneticanomaly · Mar 2, 2011

Is your boss still under warranty?

Seriously, looks like time to take that injection pump apart. Possibly dirt in it, possibly fuel rack stripped or disengaged from plunger gear, gear loose on plunger...

abarnsley · Mar 3, 2011

Those simple 1 lungers, should have a check valve (delivery valve) at base of injection pump HP out fitting.

Ball/needle and spring, simple kind of thing... one piece of junk, or bad machining, or...

Any air leaking into system on suction side, will not let the tiny plunger on pump, draw in fresh fuel..

Just remove the fitting, catch the parts under it, and report back..

Injector on that engine, require fuel under pressure to open... No fuel, no run...

If you had fuel being pumped during each compression stroke, and still no fire, take injector to a diesel shop for a pop test.. Quick and easy..

On a little engine, not much fuel is getting moved per fuel pump plunger stroke...

A simple field test can be made with your best loudmouth onlooker, blowing into tank.. pressurizing tank while cranking, will cover up fuel line suction leaks... Take a picture for the Web

Should be a little pulsating flow of fuel out of pump fitting while cranking.

My old (still running Yanmar) engine has NO RACK, just a lever operated needle valve (controlled by govenor) to control fuel to pump... Amazing it works.. Dirt simple compared to a Bosch APF, 1 cylinder injection pump..

willbird · Mar 3, 2011

MY question is, if ether is bad for diesels, why do some OEM's build a system right into the equipment to use ether ?

Does the wd-40 help in cold weather like ether does ? Everything I ever worked on on was a gasser, but dad swore ether was bad in high compression gas engines even, when people use it you can hear some nasty pre ignition and or detonation going on.

Bill

APD · Mar 3, 2011

Is the "2nd Nut" fitting from your photo actually a check valve? Take the fitting off and look for a spring loaded ball.
Somewhere in between the tank and injector pump, you should have a check valve to prevent fuel pressure loss. If this is not opening, or installed backwards, it could prevent starting.
If that's not the problem, its almost certainly the lift pump, since you have fuel going into it, but not making it to the injector pump.
If you can, remove that fitting and attach some sort of hose to catch the fuel, then crank the engine a few times. You should see a steady pulse of fuel while cranking. If not the lift pump is bad.

magneticanomaly · Mar 3, 2011

AFAIK, 2 reasons "ether is bad"

1. Washes lube off cylinder bore

2. The combustion timing in a Diesel is controlled by when the fuel is injected. It is assumed that by then, the compressed air charge will be hot enough to ignite it. In order for that to be a safe assumption, the engine is designed so that under good conditions the air is hot enough before injection commences. So, if the engine is fed a combustible mixture through the intake, instead of just air, combustion will begin just anytime the charge gets hot enough. The whole point of ether is that it is a not-very-stable oxygenated fuel, with a LOW ignition temperature, so it can light off VERY early, while the piston is still coming up rapidly, and bend the rod or crack the piston, or slam the already lube-starved rings very hard in their grooves.

Ether is especially a no-no if engine has glow plugs, because they represent a source of ignition present all the time.

Some OEM ether start systems attempt to match the dose to the temperature, so engine gets barely enough to help it start while hopefully avoiding damage.

Why do OEM's sell ether start systems if ether is bad for the engine?

Would it hurt their feelings if you had to buy a new one?

rmcphearson · Mar 3, 2011

M-Box said:
I'm going to try and find out why the fuel pump is not pumping fuel

When the engine is running how do you shut it off? Manual or electric fuel solenoid?

Tony Quiring · Mar 3, 2011

On off lever

It looks like a lever at the bottom of the photo, and it looks to be to the left.

Usually to the left os off, to the right is on, with it just below what looks like the fuel pump it may be the control.

Since this looks to be brand new I doubt it had any run in or it was run out of fuel.

With a small engine you will need to crank a LOOOOONG time to get all of the air out.

Try the lever then also try starting fluid, but spray from a distance as very little is needed, the engine may need to run awhile to pump up all of the lines.

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