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  1. #21
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    Ether is bad for diesels..

    Diesels that can not start when it is cold, are bad for people...

    The engineered timed shot systems, only allow enough to be injected to start engine.

    Spraying out of a can (unknown pressure, unknown mixture, unknown amount) can provide unknown results....

    These engines are Simple..

    As I posted earlier, I think there is a lever or switch that must be reset each cranking cycle. The check/delivery valve needs to be checked as I posted up a couple posts.

    I have been called out on a 150 mile one way service call, to fix a nonstarting 1 cylinder diesel... Problem .. It was not getting any fuel... owner had installed a boat fuel line primer bulb. The primer check valve was in closed position, due to the fact the fuel tank had about 6 ft of head on the line.. No primer bulb needed there...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Quiring View Post
    It looks like a lever at the bottom of the photo, and it looks to be to the left.

    Usually to the left os off, to the right is on, with it just below what looks like the fuel pump it may be the control.

    Since this looks to be brand new I doubt it had any run in or it was run out of fuel.

    With a small engine you will need to crank a LOOOOONG time to get all of the air out.
    +1

    No fuel from the injector pump suggests the fuel rack is closed, possibly by the manual shutoff lever just below the pump. When the rack is open, fuel should slowly dribble out while cranking the engine - it's not going to be enough to squirt, but it will be noticeable.

  3. #23
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    When timing multi-cylinder inline injection pumps without a high pressure fuel supply the delivery valve is removed so that the fuel will flow out of the plunger and barrel assembly by gravity and the pump is rotated until port closing is reached and fuel stops flowing. This would be at the start of fuel delivery and where timing is checked. This sounds like what you have done by loosening the delivery valve nut. Make sure every thing is dead clean before disassembling anything. On Bosch pumps and the like the delivery valve is for a lack of a better word 'T' shaped riding in the bore with the spring on the outlet end. During the injection event it lifts off its seat and lets fuel past. At the end of the injection event the spring forces the delivery valve down, and the stem's movement reduces the pressure in the line to allow the injector to close rapidly. The head of the valve seals the line off from the pump element to maintain some pressure in the line for the next injection event. So fuel flow should stop when the engine is slowly rotated to TDC on the firing cycle when the delivery valve is loosened off. If not there is a problem with the way the throttle/stop levers are set or internally with the rack and associated linkage. If fuel does stop flowing then either the delivery valve is assembled incorrectly, wasn't made right, or is stuck closed. I've never seen a ball bearing in this application but the principles should still apply if that's what you find.
    Hope this helps.
    Dale

  4. #24
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    Seems most of my suggestions have already been written. I'll add,
    Many deisel gen's have a oil pressure safety switch. It will not allow the injector to add fuel if it does not recognize that it has oil pressure. Sometimes there is a safety switch which you have to manually throw that fools the gen's oil pressure sensor into thinking it has pressure and it will allow it to start. Once started you have to make the pressure switch 'automatic' instead of 'manua'l.
    Sometimes the safety switch consolidates the governor and oil pressure into one safety switch. I assume it has a electronic governor, which would just be an electonically controlled actuator to govern the speed. The linkage from the governor to the injector linkage could be gummed up and just needs to be moved around and lubed.
    Generally you kill the gen by closing the governor switch. That will let the engine die yet still maintain fuel pressure.
    Timing of the injector pump and injector must be spot on too. But hat would only change if somebody has monkey'ed with it.
    If it is a single lunger, there might be a compression release valve so the engine can get up to speed, and so it does not drain the starter battery. If it has the lever, make sure it is closed when you are trying to get it to run.

    Let us know what the solution was.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by abarnsley View Post
    Ether is bad for diesels..

    Diesels that can not start when it is cold, are bad for people...

    The engineered timed shot systems, only allow enough to be injected to start engine.

    Spraying out of a can (unknown pressure, unknown mixture, unknown amount) can provide unknown results....

    These engines are Simple..

    .
    The ones I was asking about are on older JD farm equipment.....by appearance there is no timing involved in them ?

  6. #26
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    Smile

    I'm patiently waiting for the solution. Sorry I can't help.

  7. #27
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    willbird - I have a an old Dresser TD7E dozer that has factory ether injection. I have used ether on it sprayed into the air cleaner inlet (changing the ether canister in the engine bay is a pain). I figure I have used 2 cans ether in it over the last 15 years.

    The dozer sits out in a shed with no heat - sometimes left in the woods down by the corner of the property. Ether is only needed in the winter after it has sat for a few months and the battery is low / oil thick, when my driveway needs plowed - it is usually below 35 degrees.

    Trying to start in the snow with no ether after sitting a while and you will run the battery dead before getting it to start.

    That said - if it is summer time - never a need for ether, starts right up.

  8. #28
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    Hmmmmm. By my count 8 suggestions, one acknowleged. Is it running or not?

  9. #29
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    Update!

    I removed the entire fuel pump today, I took out the tappet and was able to see the cam for the pump.

    Here is a picture the one on the left is what the pump looks like, it seems pretty generic.





    Here is an exploded view of the pump assembily I was able to find here, the engine they mention appears to be the same as the one I have and the directions are written much better than the ones that came with the generator.
    C. ***INSPECTION

    As you can see in the picture there is a control lever (8), When the injector was removed I was able to slide the control lever (8) back and forth with a lot of resistance, Is it supposed to be so hard? When connected to the

    I then placed the pump back in the engine with the sliding valve in the far left, far right and center positions, cranked the engine several times and did not see fuel coming out. I also installed the pump so the slide was connected to the throttle arm like it seemed it was meant to be but the arm did not appear to be able to move the side on the pump in ether direction.



    Last edited by M-Box; 03-07-2011 at 10:50 AM.

  10. #30
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    Interesting. from the poor pictures, it looks like the pump piston is rotated on a cam collar, rotate one way and piston extends (more fuel per stroke) other way less. Or the pump piston has the normal helix type fuel bleed machined in it.

    It looks like the lever will be hard to move due to the return spring (#9) pushing on it.

    What I have often seen, the fuel has water in it. Piston rusts in the tight piston bore in up position... Fuel pump cam does not get to work piston because it is stuck up out of reach. Often just tapping on the lower spring portion will free up piston..

    The piston and spring are retained with automotive valve style keepers.

    Pull the 2 nuts (that hold plate #12 ) and lift entire pump out of engine.

    Put a fuel line on fuel input with clean fuel.

    Press pump piston base against a piece of wood, compressing spring. It should start pumping a small amount of fuel out of top HP fitting after several strokes (with lever in full fuel postion).

    DO NOT PUT YOUR HAND ON TOP OF HP FITTING (part #1). Injected Diesel makes for BAD infections.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by abarnsley View Post
    Interesting. from the poor pictures, it looks like the pump piston is rotated on a cam collar, rotate one way and piston extends (more fuel per stroke) other way less. Or the pump piston has the normal helix type fuel bleed machined in it.

    It looks like the lever will be hard to move due to the return spring (#9) pushing on it.

    What I have often seen, the fuel has water in it. Piston rusts in the tight piston bore in up position... Fuel pump cam does not get to work piston because it is stuck up out of reach. Often just tapping on the lower spring portion will free up piston..

    The piston and spring are retained with automotive valve style keepers.

    Pull the 2 nuts (that hold plate #12 ) and lift entire pump out of engine.

    Put a fuel line on fuel input with clean fuel.

    Press pump piston base against a piece of wood, compressing spring. It should start pumping a small amount of fuel out of top HP fitting after several strokes (with lever in full fuel postion).

    DO NOT PUT YOUR HAND ON TOP OF HP FITTING (part #1). Injected Diesel makes for BAD infections.
    Sorry about the poor picture! I added labels to a larger exploded view to help.

    I will try to depress the spring with the fuel line attached to see if it it pumping but I do know that the cam is contacting the pump because when I install the pump into the engine it will not go in all the way because the came lobe is in the way, it will fit in after the crank is rotated a few degrees.

    After that I will try do disassemble the rest of the pump and make sure it is working. I guess it would be a good idea to wear goggles when taking out the spring that looks like it is under tension?

  12. #32
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    Hey all!

    Well Sorry for the delay, I have not had a chance to work on this machine for a while but I took your advice and started to try and actuate the spring on the lever and in the proses I found that the spring loaded plunger for the pump was stuck in a compressed state the entire time!!!! After liberal doses of wd40 I was able to loosen the plunger and actuated the plunger with ease, I then connected the fuel line then as advised started to pump the plunger and fuel started coming out. During reassembly I ensured there was no trapped air in any of the lines and started it up. Everyone was very happy that the diesel generator was running and am ecstatic, With a huge amount of help from the folks here and a few weeks time I managed to succeeded in doing something that real diesel mechanics do several times a day.

    Anyway this machine will finally allow access to a lot of interesting places to a lot of interested people, thank you all for your help!
    (Here it is with a load on it, it will be powering a whole lot more in the future)

  13. #33
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    I just love a happy ending.


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