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    Default OT: performance engine tuning references

    I've got a friend who likes throwing all his cash at a 1/4 mile car. He's at the point that tuning is essential for consistency. What are the "bibles" of performance engine tuning? Any good references?
    TIA!

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    ahhh Winnipeg . . . I have family spread around that neck of the woods.

    You ask a question that is completely dependent up on what motor he is running. Answer that question and you will get much better information.

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    351 stroker-but why engine dependent? I'm not an engine guy by any stretch of the imagination. The basics of fuel/timing,etc. are some of the variables that people "tune" for? Isn't the objective to apply general principals to your specific setup?

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    "ahhh Winnipeg . . . I have family spread around that neck of the woods."

    Not quite the "neck". A little lower down the spine,me thinks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by millwrong View Post
    351 stroker-but why engine dependent? I'm not an engine guy by any stretch of the imagination. The basics of fuel/timing,etc. are some of the variables that people "tune" for? Isn't the objective to apply general principals to your specific setup?
    Because we don’t know if you are running a 4 cylinder turbo Subaru WRX, or a Mazda rotary, or in your case Ferd 8 cylinder iron. They all have different tweaks and tuning they respond well to that don’t make much sense for another family of motors.

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    Windsor or Cleveland? totally different...

    Anyhow can you convince your friend to stop racing? he would sure save a lot and could buy some machine tools instead or a shop etc. earn some money with the new tools.
    Racing is like owning a boat and boat stands for bring on another thousand.....The feeling is like siting on the edge of a stream and throwing in cash and watching it float by.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Street View Post
    Windsor or Cleveland? totally different...

    Anyhow can you convince your friend to stop racing? he would sure save a lot and could buy some machine tools instead or a shop etc. earn some money with the new tools.
    Racing is like owning a boat and boat stands for bring on another thousand.....The feeling is like siting on the edge of a stream and throwing in cash and watching it float by.

    No, that is the wrong feeling.

    The FEELING is having your head pinned to the seat back, your lips parting uncontrollably around your clenched teeth.
    Blood pounding through every vein and vessel of an unfeeling body. Surrounded by an impossible din, unheard.
    The feeling of your very life's breath suspended in a moment of infinity. Vision blurred on the periphery, with pinpoint detailed focus on the center,.. the destiny,............. the finish.

    That is the feeling... what does it cost?
    Half of what it's worth, I can tell you that.

    Perhaps you have not had that feeling of life's pleasure.....yet.

    ;-)

    eta

    "The satisfaction endures, Long after the price is forgotten"!
    Last edited by CalG; 05-07-2020 at 08:17 PM.

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    If your friend would like to learn about tuning Fuel Injection, you might want to check out HP Academy.


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    principles of engine tuning:

    1. get the highest octane fuel you can get
    2. get a wideband and run rich (around 0.85 lambda)
    3. advance timing until you blow the head gasket. then lower it by 2-3°.

    if you want to go faster get an ls3 engine and a blower.

    btw, are we talking carburator?

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    hehe he that's funny its like rev it till it throws a rod then back off 500rpm and set that as your top end rev limit.......

    oh yeah i have thrown a rod at full noise, it aint pretty, when i was younger.

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    I have a friend who ran a race car, and now his son is doing same. He buys Chevy racing crate engines. He told me a few secrets. But one/I can’t tell secrets.
    Good number of performance books to be had for a price.

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    The way it works is....if someone really knows what they're doing, they won't be publishing it in a book for all to see.

    You need to read ALL the books and guides and decide what is BS and what actually works. Most books contain at least one good 'tip' and a lot of fluff.

    Then, you also need to talk to a lot of other guys who are racing....both winning and losing...to learn what's what.

    There is no 'bible'. As soon as any car guy starts talking about the 'bible' you know he's of limited scope.

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    Still one might go from a rank green horn to amateur with reading books.
    Tune to Win: The art and science of race car development and tuning: Smith, Carroll: 9780879380717: Amazon.com: Books

    Amazon.com: Performance Automotive Engine Math (Sa Design-Pro) eBook: Baechtel, John: Kindle Store

    My son used to be a race car mechanic, He pulled wrenches and would take the race car to the track and set up the car and hotel and the like. One time he brought it to Detroit for a full tune up. I think the bill was about $20K or more and took about 3 days.
    I went with Matt to Drop off the car. The fellow who worked on it had a precision lay out table to set the car for the chassie adjustments...big enough for the car.. He, the tune-up fellow did special work for GM , Chrysler and Ford.. He was designing some composite intake manifolds for the Viper V-10 at that time.

    Matt went to UTI for mechanics from 2 strokes to experimantalI think race engines was some where in the middle. Now he pulls wrenches for a big roofing company...
    But with having a problm back it is a tough job..

    I met a fellow in califoria who had over $20K intio his heads...A dirt tack car with having thoses air foils.
    Last edited by michiganbuck; 05-07-2020 at 04:25 PM.

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    tell him to switch to electric - drag racing will be dominated by electric cars over the next few years.

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    Regardless of what it is or who is going to tune it. Tell your friend to find a shop with a chassis dyno and tune the engine on the dyno. It may seem expensive up front, but in the long run you will be $$ and time and engine(s) ahead.

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    An old and classic book is "The Sports Car Engine" by Colin Campbell.
    For sure dated but the rules still apply.
    Tuning is and art and any books or references only take you so far.
    Since you mention consistency I assume a bracket car?
    Bob

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    The High-Speed Internal-Combustion Engine by
    Harry Ricardo is pretty good.

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    "The Sports Car Engine" by Colin Campbell
    "The High-Speed Internal-Combustion Engine by
    Harry Ricardo"
    "Tune to Win: The art and science of race car development and tuning"

    Thanks to all! As I stated, I'm not an engine guy. I DO recognize that my friend is in deep,($$$) waters, so I'm trying to give him the fundamentals he probably should've acquired before walking the path. I must admit,I'm a bit gob-smacked by the lack of good,solid reference material for such a heavy monies industry. There clearly is a progression from beer guzzlin'- racin' bozo to what AlfaGTA does. From the outside view of this industry, not having minimal signposts anywhere is a bit of a flag for me. Lots of give me your money;I know what you need!Caveat emptor!!

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    There's a lot of misgiving in the drag world. But there's also a lot of knowledge, and the people who created that knowledge are not prone to giving it away....just like any other industry. Moreover, drag racers by nature are not the type of guys who have it in their blood to sit around writing books. Drag racers are very much 'doers' and writers are very much 'talkers'.

    It's a lot like sex. People who do it are far ahead of those who write (or read) about it. And doing it for an hour will teach you way more than reading about it for a day.

    Drag racing remains the purest for of motorsports in many ways. For example, of the 4 wheeled motorports, it's one of the few left where you can participate without a million dollar bankroll or a 7 person team. Look at Indy Racing...it's so snooty you can't even race without the right pedigree and the right connections. Yuck.

    Some years ago, Road and Track listed the stats (various acceleration, top speed, braking, g's, etc.) of all the race cars they had tested. Included was a Top Fuel dragster fielded by one the pro's. They listed in bold font the top performer in each category. The Top Fuel car was #1 in every field related to acceleration and even top speed. It was quicker and faster than any other race care fielded by anyone in any form of racing.....to go any faster would require one of a handful of Bonneville race cars. And the dragster hit that speed in a quarter mile.

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    Has anyone got a link to all those little "drag racing trivia".

    It had reference to the number of crankshaft revolutions turned in the 1/4 mile, IIRC it's something like 800.
    And if a Hyabusa motor bike at full tilt crossed the start line next to a top fuely, then the drag car took off, the drag car would cross the finish line FIRST. That's a lot of thrill in a little over 4 seconds ;-)


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