OT - Protecting new blacktop drive from parked RV
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  1. #1
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    Default OT - Protecting new blacktop drive from parked RV

    So I'm having blacktop driveway installed Friday, in a conversion from gravel. One parking area will hold a mid-size 24' Class C RV -- ~12K lbs (max) on a dually E350 Super Duty chassis.

    Rear axle probably sees 75% of the weight, so 9K, leaving 3K on the front. (That's a guess -- although seems 8 and 4 would be more likely.)

    Each tire looks to have a 7" x 7" footprint, so ~50 x 6 = 300 sq. in. Which works out to 40 psi if I did things correctly.

    My blacktop job is fairly standard residential, with about 6" of compacted road base below a stated 6" blacktop compacted to 4" blacktop coating over the area where the RV will be parked.

    Question of the day is: Will a 3'x3' chunk of 1/2" A36 steel plate ('road plate') under the rear duallies prevent divots in the blacktop due to long-term RV parking? (Getting me down to ~3.5 psi in the back.)

    And will 24" x 18" do the same for the front? (Also ~3.5 psi.)

    I know the areas covered will produce reasonable loads, but will 1/2" bend enough to be worthless? Should I opt for 3/4", or even (ugh) 1"?

    I'd like to avoid jacking it up, or using thick wood, because I try to drive it around monthly even in the winter...

    3' x 3' is about all I care to handle (183 lbs) for a vehicle that is supposed to be about recreation. I'm sure I can work out a way to move into place, since it will stay put for quite a while. Just don't want to screw up the new driveway.

    I have 72+ hours from Friday evening before I can park the heavy stuff on the drive, so I have a little time to work some things out.

    Just want to make sure I'm aiming at a reasonable target...

    Thoughts?

    Chip

    PS -- So happy to move on from clearing snow from a gravel drive, too...

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    A swag here but yes I think you'd be fine with your plan (I had a portion of my driveway blacktopped a couple of years ago so I have a little experience in the area, and a friend of mine parks his F-550 with skinny tires on it occasionally with no marks).

    I personally would just use aluminum or 3/4" plywood, I think it'd do the trick as well. And I don't think you need a full 3x3 in the rear, unless it's just an easier target when parking.

    For real overkill: If this is your RV for the next few years, what about first pouring some 24x24x8" concrete pads that will come out flush with the blacktop.

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    Or use concrete paving slabs rot & rust free, not to mention cheaper than metal (and possibly wood) (just in case you know them as something different https://www.amazon.co.uk/Council-Con.../dp/B072Q9DPSQ ) most Brit DIY stores do them singly

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCByrd24 View Post

    For real overkill: If this is your RV for the next few years, what about first pouring some 24x24x8" concrete pads that will come out flush with the blacktop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Or use concrete paving slabs rot & rust free, not to mention cheaper than metal (and possibly wood) (just in case you know them as something different https://www.amazon.co.uk/Council-Con.../dp/B072Q9DPSQ ) most Brit DIY stores do them singly
    Both of these solutions will cause a break/tear in the "Fung Shway" of the all black seamless driveway that is known as "asphalt"....

    In suburbia in the 1970's we had neighbors so addicted to that sheen, they top coated it every year with dozen of buckets.

    If you parked you bike on it, the kickstand would submerge about 1" in an hour....
    YouTube

    I would use the plywood, but use a piece of 6 mil black poly between as a separator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Both of these solutions will cause a break/tear in the "Fung Shway" of the all black seamless driveway that is known as "asphalt"....

    In suburbia in the 1970's we had neighbors so addicted to that sheen, they top coated it every year with dozen of buckets.

    If you parked you bike on it, the kickstand would submerge about 1" in an hour....
    YouTube

    I would use the plywood, but use a piece of 6 mil black poly between as a separator.
    I think you meant ash-fault not asphalt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCByrd24 View Post
    ...For real overkill: If this is your RV for the next few years, what about first pouring some 24x24x8" concrete pads that will come out flush with the blacktop.
    It's my RV for years, but the driveway/house will not be. Just don't want to mess it up (over the next couple years) for the next owner...

    I have some 8" wide C-channel in aluminum. Sides are 2" high, and 'web' is 3/8" or so. I have enough I could make a couple of 3' sections, and set each tire of the dually in them. So that's an option. Downside: can't really drive into them accurately without positioning and a helper. I can drive onto a big plate easily...

    The concrete pad thing is overbudget, especially compared to the cost of a couple steel plates.

    I was looking at LVL beams at the lumberyard today. The kind that is basically 1.5" thick plywood with many 1/16" layers. I know it's intended to be used vertically, but clearly it's stronger when flat than a standard tree-sourced chunk of dimensional lumber... like a 2x12. I'll have to look and see if there's even a rating for using them the wrong way...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Chester View Post
    I was looking at LVL beams at the lumberyard today. The kind that is basically 1.5" thick plywood with many 1/16" layers. I know it's intended to be used vertically, but clearly it's stronger when flat than a standard tree-sourced chunk of dimensional lumber... like a 2x12. I'll have to look and see if there's even a rating for using them the wrong way...
    Wood scaffold planks are made of those now.
    I would just use plywood in sizes you are planning. We use 1 1/8" ply for driving equipment across lawns that we want to protect from rutting with tires. Those machines weigh 10k-16k or so on 4 tires.
    Have to second the heavy plastic between asphault and whatever pad you end up using. Downside of steel is it WILL leave a rust stain.

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    I think I’d router the edges of the down facing side just to make sure I didn’t leave any edge imprints.

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    Asphalt used as a binder in blacktop is a viscous liquid. Any long term loading will cause flow. Look at parking lots for malls. All have depressions where the tires sit. You need concrete pads under the wheels.

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    Plytainum brand 1.125 sub floor at Lowe's.

    Span rating is 48 inches and the outer layers very hard in that drywall screws have hard time creating the countersunk.

    Cut in 1/2 longwise (2 8x2strips) then at about 3 ft long.

    Place 3 ft on top of 5 ft and place wheels on that.

    Spreads out load well.

    Do check axle weight as front is heavier than you think.

    Make same for front.

    Also at Lowe's or home depot is 5 gallons of maintenance paint for about 40 bucks.

    Give everything 3 coats all sides then place plastic under wood, garbage bags unopened work well.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illinoyance View Post
    Asphalt used as a binder in blacktop is a viscous liquid. Any long term loading will cause flow. Look at parking lots for malls. All have depressions where the tires sit. You need concrete pads under the wheels.
    Now we are "getting real". "Flexible" pavement. By definition. That is its nature. [1]
    See "fox and scorpion" parable.

    Go big. Go cheap.

    1) Plastic film "of some sort". Not because the faulty asses need it. So your plate doesn't get solidly GLUED to it whilst still young and in raging hormones mode, surplus of binder. Portland cement sweep-over is your friend, longer term top-seal durability and "dry" for shoe-soles surface.

    2) 3/4" or BETTER plywood, full 4' X 8' sheets each rear dual. 4' x 4' each front single.

    3) 8' or 4' long planks, 2" X 12" atop the ply.

    You WILL get depressions.

    They'll just be larger, have less obtrusive edge-blend as the ply flexes, hence be less obvious!

    [1] Asphaltic concrete for higher loads exists, widely used. Airports, but not-only. Only a distant cousin to what is used for residential driveways, though. VERY distant.

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    A few pieces of 2x12. If you cannot aim accurately then move the freekin target as the tires get close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffy887 View Post
    A few pieces of 2x12. If you cannot aim accurately then move the freekin target as the tires get close.
    PM. Doing what PM does best!


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    Immediately after the driveway was put in, as part of the original contract, the paver saw cut two rectangles and poured two concrete pads for our Class A. If the white bothers you, have the concrete colored black and it will mostly blend in. When you seal the driveway, seal the concrete too. You can defer this and let it sink, but it's the right way to get it done.

    Something to think about before the driveway is paved: Run electric and sewer lines to the far side. You'll be *really* glad you did (trust me on this!). There's nothing like full services right at home.

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    Central Ohio, exposed to the elements? You can use plywood but I'd really prime it and paint it with something durable (maybe black, to match asphault?).

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Now we are "getting real". "Flexible" pavement. By definition. That is its nature. [1]
    See "fox and scorpion" parable.

    Go big. Go cheap.

    1) Plastic film "of some sort". Not because the faulty asses need it. So your plate doesn't get solidly GLUED to it whilst still young and in raging hormones mode, surplus of binder. Portland cement sweep-over is your friend, longer term top-seal durability and "dry" for shoe-soles surface.

    2) 3/4" or BETTER plywood, full 4' X 8' sheets each rear dual. 4' x 4' each front single.

    3) 8' or 4' long planks, 2" X 12" atop the ply.

    You WILL get depressions.

    They'll just be larger, have less obtrusive edge-blend as the ply flexes, hence be less obvious!

    [1] Asphaltic concrete for higher loads exists, widely used. Airports, but not-only. Only a distant cousin to what is used for residential driveways, though. VERY distant.
    Yup, the 6 mil (polyethylene sheet) I suggested was just for that reason.

    The large plywood will lower the gorund pressure so there shouldn't be any marking.

    "Tar & Chip" was the rural answer to cheap asphalt's flowing.

    Oh how I love T&C....15 yo riding my bike, got 4 stiches in my arm (2 underneath)lost maybe 2 pints of blood. Turned 16, got a car...never looked back.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails calvin-bicycle.jpeg  

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    asphalt millings in 3 different locations. all with class A motorhomes sitting on it and with tractor trailer traffic. no noticeable divots under the motorhomes. sand base. if someone did get divots with millings it would be an easy fix i think

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    Quote Originally Posted by cg285 View Post
    asphalt millings in 3 different locations. all with class A motorhomes sitting on it and with tractor trailer traffic. no noticeable divots under the motorhomes. sand base. if someone did get divots with millings it would be an easy fix i think
    Wise choice.

    Recycled asphalt - mostly the aggregate, of course - has the advantage of being "well-adjusted" in its prior life from age and the - quite necessary, actually - kneading by traffic, hence "dry" in the sense its binder is well-distributed, no longer as mobile.

    Highly beneficial technology, pavement milling and recycling has proven to be.

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    Good discussion and points all. Some comments:

    Aim is only an issue when it comes to backing into a legs-up C-channel 1" wider than the tire. x4 tires. Getting out and re-adjusting is certainly the key, but I think I'll do better just hitting a pad of some sort on the fly.

    We'll probably be in this house another year or 18 months, if things go according to plan. Concrete pads would be another thing to remove/repair because the next owner likely won't have an RV with identical wheelbase. Just looking to minimize my damage over that timespan.

    Routed/rounded edges were in the plan regardless of material. Plastic was not. I'll go thick here because I'll want to peel it off as a sheet, not as shards.

    There are various construction sites in the neighborhood. Going to do some drop-bys while walking the dog and see if they have LVL cut-offs to discard. Or for donuts.

    The Craigslist ad for 1/2" 4x8 A36 steel sheet @$250 looks like it was false advertising. That's qty 20 or so, apparently. (Used, stored outdoors, 1hr drive each way.) I have spied a welding table that could be (and deserves to be) sacrificed, though, if I decide on steel...

    I know thin concrete on top of existing pour is usually doomed to failure. How thin can a 'new' blacktop layer be over existing, in case there are still divots to fill?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Chester View Post
    I know thin concrete on top of existing pour is usually doomed to failure. How thin can a 'new' blacktop layer be over existing, in case there are still divots to fill?
    "See-through" thin do yah? Asphalt is polyamorous and incestuous by nature, willing to marry-up with whatever it lies next to, lessn' too much dry mineral fines git in the way.



    No need to use hot patch or cold nor even the expensive bagged "airport grade" patch, nor rent a roller.

    My "trick" is to do that as Old Skewl "built up" or "chip seal" approach with crusher dust and sand. Deeper hole gets fine gravel is all.

    Might substitute "Henry" brand foundation-sealing Asphalt "paint" which-isn't-exactly paint. Costs more but binds better. I use it to assure resistance to the steering-tire end of forklifts.

    See also "Gilsonite".

    Rent a small plate tamper that is relatively easy to handle if need be. Otherwise lay plastic, then plywood and just drive the truck or car back and forth over the top of it, sort of "edging" your way across a tire-width or less at a pass.

    Then blend all the patches in with the usual long-handle brush & squeegee and blacktop driveway sealer, broadcast of fine sand.

    See also coal-tar based emulsions for improved resistance to fuel and oil drips.

    A final sweep-over of Portland cement to make it look nice, kill the stickiness so it dasn't look TOO DAMNED "new" and suspicious, nor highlight the patches off the texture or coloration.

    Nuisance task, but cheap enough.

    "Thin" is not a limitation at all, and it doesn't take all that long to do.

    Old, tired, still have more MONEY than time?

    Look up "chip seal" outfits. You can even get fancy colours ... brown, white, pink, green, even purple-ish.

    CAVEAT:I try HARD to NOT use water emulsions. Petroluem base, only.

    Makes it easier to do a cut-back with kerosene or Diesel when I have to work in cold weather. Also keeps all the players happier as to blending and binding well.


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