OT- Railroad Train Stopping Distance. - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 107
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    OKC, OK. USA..
    Posts
    143
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    123
    Likes (Received)
    68

    Default

    Its quite simple, Dick around on the Rail Roads right of way, repeat (Rail Roads right of way) and Die..
    Starting a fight with a choo choo you lose..
    Loaded rail cars can weigh as much as 200,000 LBS. 100 to 150 of them with 2 to 5 locomotives
    is a lot of weight to move and stop.. It takes time and distance.. The 1 mile number is a good rule of thumb..
    Most of the deaths are someone trying to beat the train at a crossing driving around crossing arms..
    Like the comedian said You Can't Fix Stupid..

  2. Likes digger doug liked this post
  3. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    St Louis
    Posts
    16,913
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1448
    Likes (Received)
    2607

    Default

    Make it REALLY FREAKING SIMPLE...

    THERE IS NO WAY A TRAIN CAN STOP FOR YOU.

    The only practical reason for the train to stop at all is for the local police to get their report. Harsh, but true. The train normally is way past the site by the time it actually stops. In other words, if they can see you on the track, they can't stop in time.

    I have only seen one accident where the loco was near the site... Amtrak hit a truck in Kirkwood. The station is only a half mile away, and they were obviously not moving very fast at that point. And did not have 14,000 tons of coal behind the loco.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Near Seattle
    Posts
    4,408
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2461
    Likes (Received)
    1106

    Default

    All of this misses another aspect, I remember rather too well from high school driver's ed. It was reported that a surprizing number of cars that collide with trains (40%?) drive into the side of the train..... In which case of course stopping distance of the train is irrevelent.... (Uh, actually, WA state DOT says it's 25% even now...)

    Likewise, people who are "impaired" by some, well, impairing substance, are well known to do lots of daft things, like walk into or under moving cars, try to walk across freeways at night, and walk across live train tracks....

    So, this heavily loaded train is going 30mph, and the engineer looking down the track sees - nothing. And then, when at a distance where even many road vehicles couldn't stop, someone walks, leaps, falls, onto the track in front the train. The stopping distance, even the reaction distance, may be irrelevent....

    Some number of people killed by trains are committing suicide (or some similar distorted thing) - there was a story about train driver's in Europe who have become utterly paranoid about people leaping out from behind trees and sheds....

    To add to the social friction, Seattle is being sued because the *tracks* for one of the idiot street cars make a divot in the road, which a cyclist obeying normal rules of traffic got tangled into and thrown on her head, and died. It doesn't seem it will be long before some pedestrian suffers a similar fate...
    The stopping distance of the street car is of course irrelevent to this....

  5. Likes digger doug, Bobw liked this post
  6. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    10,283
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    17352
    Likes (Received)
    5365

    Default

    They go allot faster than 30 mph too....

  7. Likes JRIowa liked this post
  8. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    5,128
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    341
    Likes (Received)
    2045

    Default

    "I think maybe safety advertisements could display this fact, to give the general public a better grasp of the physics, because most people are used to brakes being quite effective in stopping their cars or their bikes."

    You wanna try to educate the public???

  9. Likes digger doug, JRIowa liked this post
  10. #26
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Republic of Arizonia
    Posts
    1,446
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    381

    Default

    Actual work in a place that has a train.

    Most rail cars come in around 62K-67K lbs empty, add 200K lbs for a load to each car.

    I believe any applied air over 24lbs is considered an emergency stop.

    Used to live around relatives who worked at UP and BNSF.

    Even had one get killed at a crossing were the arms weren't properly tuned for the rail traffic multiple lanes and an incorrect sensor circuit.

    UP and BNSF are running mile mile and half trains usually with 6 locomotives in front and a couple of pushers sometimes you see extra locomotives in the middle.

    I was told mile minimum, but that was before the mile and a half long trains.

  11. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Webster Groves, MO
    Posts
    6,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1521
    Likes (Received)
    2564

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bryan_machine View Post

    To add to the social friction, Seattle is being sued because the *tracks* for one of the idiot street cars make a divot in the road, which a cyclist obeying normal rules of traffic got tangled into and thrown on her head, and died. It doesn't seem it will be long before some pedestrian suffers a similar fate...
    The stopping distance of the street car is of course irrelevent to this....
    As a long time biker, I can testify that tracks in roads can be deadly. Once you get your front tire in the groove, it is just a matter of whether good Jesus decides to give you another chance or not. The problem is so severe that the post WWII Indian owner's manual has a section on how to deal with them. The short answer is to swing wide and cross them at a large angle. Never ride close and parallel to the tracks.

    I was on an AMTRAK train from New York to Chicago that made an emergency stop, about the same deceleration that you would use to gently roll up to a red light. There was a gravel road alongside the tracks and a crossing up ahead. Some idiot tried to race the train and make the crossing ahead of it. The train was short and waiting for it to go by would only have required a few seconds. Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately because the fool is still in the gene pool) he couldn't make the turn on gravel and wound up in the tall and uncut. The car was so close to the track that the streamlined sides of the passenger cars cleared it but the freight train behind it couldn't, so everyone had to wait while the AMTRAK crew got it moved away.

    Bill

  12. Likes Bobw liked this post
  13. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Beaver County Alb. Canada
    Posts
    1,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    486
    Likes (Received)
    863

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ronf View Post
    Way to many variables to give a set answer. Just the temperature of the rail, reaction time of the operator, reaction time of the air system, last the weight of the train plus many more.
    I watched a show about a train trying to stop on wet rails with leaves on top in the fall,it was like greasing the rails.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Camarillo Ca
    Posts
    372
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5
    Likes (Received)
    69

    Default

    My dad was a railroad engineer. He talked about coming upon a car on the tracks several times. He talked about the look on their face as the train came upon them. They were frozen in their seat and could not move. The train could not stop. He never could forget the looks in their eyes. Bob

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    864
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    744

    Default

    So you are speeding towards the crossing and can see the train coming. Do you know how to tell if you will make it? If you are a sailor you might know, this kind of race happens all the time for us.

  16. #31
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    924
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    85
    Likes (Received)
    455

    Default

    See if the trains sail is lufting and you are on a broad reach?

  17. Likes tdmidget liked this post
  18. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    St Louis
    Posts
    16,913
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1448
    Likes (Received)
    2607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by garyhlucas View Post
    So you are speeding towards the crossing and can see the train coming. Do you know how to tell if you will make it? If you are a sailor you might know, this kind of race happens all the time for us.


    If the train "angle off" (Angle off the bow) is getting bigger, you win if it goes over 45 deg. If it gets less than 45 deg, you lose. If it stays the same and is at or under 45 degrees, you lose.

  19. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Webster Groves, MO
    Posts
    6,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1521
    Likes (Received)
    2564

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JST View Post
    If the train "angle off" (Angle off the bow) is getting bigger, you win if it goes over 45 deg. If it gets less than 45 deg, you lose. If it stays the same and is at or under 45 degrees, you lose.
    You do the same thing flying. You can predict if you are on a collision course with another airplane, working in both X and Z axes, of course. Another more useful application is predicting where you will reach the ground. There is always a spot or scratch on the windshield you can line up with a spot on the ground and tell if you will be long or short. You want to appear to be a little short because the landing flare and ground effect will extend the glide a little.

    I had another experience with it that was one of those "I learned about flying from that" kind. I had flown a little homebuilt plane that fortunately had very strong wings from Creve Coeur Airport to Alton. On the way back I was going around west of Lambert when a 707 took off in front of me. That was back when airliner engines put out a smoke trail on takeoff. I did the spot check on the 707 and realized we were on a collision course, so I did a right turn for a few seconds and then back on course, which put the 707 passing in front of me. As I approached the smoke trail, I was looking up at it, sighting along it, neglecting to consider that I was also entering a wingtip vortex. I was weightless for a moment in the roll down side, then WHAM, I hit the up side. I can't guess how many Gs the impact pulled, but like Rolls Royce horsepower, it was sufficient.

    Bill

  20. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    12,613
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3556
    Likes (Received)
    5680

    Default

    My personal views a bit different, a train is only what 10-12' wide? It travels on a very highly defined path and most crossings have pretty good warning devices and are generally very obvious. Trains are big, noisy and generally highly visible and only change velocity slowly.

    To my simplistic mind any human that can not avoid one, well its probably a minimal loss to the human race. Sorry but im getting fed up with this notion the entire world has to be modified so even the dumbest idiots can not come to harm. Some point we need a method for the human chaff to fall out the gene pool.

    Whilst train based fatalities are common, very few are caused by anything but gross stupidity. Theres far better things to focus efforts on preventing if you want to reduce human death rate, like your countries drug issues.

  21. Likes Rewt, digger doug, GregSY, Bobw, Marty Feldman and 5 others liked this post
  22. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    10,283
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    17352
    Likes (Received)
    5365

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    "I think maybe safety advertisements could display this fact, to give the general public a better grasp of the physics, because most people are used to brakes being quite effective in stopping their cars or their bikes."

    You wanna try to educate the public???
    I agree completely....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails criticalthinking.jpg   easily-distracted.jpg  

  23. Likes JRIowa, tdmidget liked this post
  24. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northern Illinois
    Posts
    3,162
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1525
    Likes (Received)
    1691

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    Whilst train based fatalities are common, very few are caused by anything but gross stupidity. Theres far better things to focus efforts on preventing if you want to reduce human death rate, like your countries drug issues.
    Can't disagree with you, but we have a problem somewhat different from the UK. Since the US system has evolved to move freight, not passengers, and the system is still somewhat overbuilt from the days when the railroad was the ONLY way to move freight, we have a lot of track that may only see one or two trains a day, which means the local population rarely sees the track occupied, So, they tend to treat it as a shortcut, hiking path, or worse yet, snowmobile path. It's been proven time and again that someone sitting ahead of a noisy snowmobile engine WILL NOT hear a train approaching from the rear until it runs them down.

    The other problem is we don't really teach that trains run on tracks... I'm sure that while the girls in the link I posted above were impressed with the speed and power of the train they were watching go by, standing way too close, it never occurred to them that an equally impressive train going the other direction might use the track they were standing on... if they even realized they were standing on a track. With the noise of the passing train drowning out the sound of the approaching train, and the assumption that the horn they were hearing was on the train they were watching, the stage was set for tragedy.

    Anyone who has ever worked for a railroad has internalized long ago that "trains can be expected to run on any track, in either direction, at any time," as the safety rules put it.

    Dennis

  25. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Madera county california usa
    Posts
    2,119
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    491

    Default

    At a local college they had to build a pedestrian underpass as folks were getting hit by trains.

    Tracks have freight (1.4 mile long) and Amtrack at higher speeds along with wake the dead horns and crossing arms.

    Cannot correct stupid...

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

  26. Likes Scottl liked this post
  27. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    4,116
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3841
    Likes (Received)
    3669

    Default

    IMO the situation is not too different from the people who pull too close in front of trucks on the highway. There are numerous PSAs warning how dangerous that is due to the greater stopping distances of trucks but I still see it nearly every highway trip. Car passes truck and then changes lanes only a car length or two in front of the truck. If anyone in the line of cars has to hit the brakes hard either the car gets crushed or the truck rolls over trying to avoid hitting it.

  28. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dewees Texas
    Posts
    1,830
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    23
    Likes (Received)
    453

    Default

    A couple of other things in the mix. As I get older it is harder to turn and look down the tracks especially if the tracks come at a 45 to the road. Sometimes you have to trust the signals. Fuel trucks are supposed to stop before crossing the tracks, I may have to start doing that stop, open the door, get out, and look both ways.
    Two is idiots who play games faking the engineers by pretending to be stuck on the tracks. It may cause a whoever is at the controls to pause before applying the brakes the next time.

  29. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dewees Texas
    Posts
    1,830
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    23
    Likes (Received)
    453

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    IMO the situation is not too different from the people who pull too close in front of trucks on the highway. There are numerous PSAs warning how dangerous that is due to the greater stopping distances of trucks but I still see it nearly every highway trip. Car passes truck and then changes lanes only a car length or two in front of the truck. If anyone in the line of cars has to hit the brakes hard either the car gets crushed or the truck rolls over trying to avoid hitting it.
    Pulling that close in front of a car or pick up is routinely done also. Recently I was on a 70MPH limit state 2 lane, just got to a 4 lane passing area and the second truck that passed pulled in front of me less than a car length, then immediately his brake lights came on. If I had not been on my brakes when he started pulling in I would have hit him. I had some stuff on the seat, threw it all off with some of it ended up under the brake pedal. Wish I had a louder horn!
    It happens quite often that people pull in front of you too soon, just once in a while immediately stopping.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •