OT sealant to prevent radon gas in basement

I have been searching for a old thread on this, having no luck finding it. My wife and I are both sick a lot, checked radon levels way above normal. We purchased a mitigation system, but will not work because there is no sand under concrete. We are desperate to find a solution to this problem. Does any one know if this sealant works? Any one with experence with these problems? Thanks a bunch, I trust you guys.

How about a chimney down to the basement? Even if you don't have it hooked to a furnace, the draft should exhaust the basement fairly continuously, thereby reducing the concentration.

I would think gravel under the floor would move the radon. Don't they use vent holes at one side and a vacating system at the other side to suck air under the floor?

I think you have to dig around the wall and put a pipe around the footer and then vent it or suck air through it.

I think it can get expensive but you can't live with it either.

Not an expert but I don't know if you can blame radon for being sick. I think it is supposed to cause some cancers, mostly lung.

Don't think you are going to get more colds from it.

Again, no expert, but would think that a hole sawed in the floor, through the concrete, plastic pipe epoxied into the hole, led out through the wall, would mitigate more than your "mitigation kit" would.

If that is insufficient, a thick epoxy coating over the entire basement floor should.

Bigger bucks for the epoxy than for the pipe vent.
WAY bigger. Would try the first method, first.

I am an apostate, so don't really believe in all that crap, so take all mine with a couple grains of salt.

Cheers,

George

I don't know for sure either but a shop I used to work at was built on the edge of a sink hole that was filled with dirt and rock. A few years after I left there I droped by for a visit and no one was working there, the shop was open and big fans were blowing air around. The business owner was there but no one else so we talked.

What happened was everone started getting sick at work over several months and when some got real sick the fire dept was called because they thought carbon monoxide was at fault. They checked everything and found low traces of carbon monoxide but extremely high levels of radon and forced the property owners to put in underground venting systems.

I haven't been back since so I don't know the outcome but the building is still there but it's not a machine shop now there is another business in it.

It seems the business park developer/builder did the dirt work and told no one about the sink hole under the corner of the building. Real nice of him don't you think. Not only the radon problem now but someday the building will sink.

If you want to seal a floor, I'd give these people a call
http://www.sanitred.com/

Problem Radon Elimination NOT Mitigation
Typical radon mitigation, radon removal and radon reduction systems are merely an attempt to redirect radon with no way to STOP radon gas from entering through the foundation. We Keep The Radon Out! Sani-Tred Basement Radon System guarantees to reduce basement radon gas to below safe radon levels. Due to Sani-Treds’ Basement Radon Proofing products unique physical properties, our Basement Radon Proofing System has the extraordinary ability to permanently radon proof and waterproof your basement for the life of the structure with a life time warranty. Sani-Tred products are do-it-yourself products and can be applied by anyone! Proper and thorough basement waterproofing is critical before basement remodeling or basement finishing is completed to eliminate the possibility of a damp basement, wet basement, basement mold and to keep out radon. A perfectly dry basement is an added bonus to our radon system. Sani-Tred products permanently solve most all basement repair needs, repairs and seals all basement joints, basement cracks, seals all basement leaks while sealing out radon gas at the same time. Sani-Treds’ Basement Radon System permanently protects all of the basements’ contents such as basement framing, basement insulation, finished basement flooring materials among all other basement finishing materials. The basement radeon proofing industry is extremely competitive because the market is literally flooded with radon related products and basement radon proofing systems that DO NOT WORK.

Click to expand...

Last time I was in Hot Springs, Ark., the old folks were lining up to get jugs of the water, despite the radon sign.

Gary E, Your link was exactly what I was looking for, looks like good stuff but expensive. Do you or any one have experience with this product? Thanks a bunch for all the replies, TT.

Radon comes in through cracks and porous floors.
If you have a concrete floor, then "that" may not be the problem.
In many homes, a pipe runs around the foundation to pick up ground water and dumps it into a sump pit with sump pumps.
This is where the Radon comes in, it follows the pipe into the pit.
If you have one of these, try to seal it up, and vent it above your roof peak, with a 4 to 6 inch pipe.
Sealing all the cracks in the floors and walls of a basement is good . Ventilation is very good.
but venting the sump is superb !
Rich

If you can afford to lose some height I would pour sand o nthe floor a few inches deep, lay some vent pipes in the sand leading to a vent stack, throw plastic over the sand and pour new concrete floor oo top of the plastic. Easier then cutting vent trenches all around.
Bill D.

I sold my house to a local TV reporter who was on somewhat of a radon crusade, and apparently freaked out about the whole thing.

I had inspectors and mitigators climbing *all over*. The recommended mitigation company somehow zeroed in on the TV aspect and I guess was hoping to get a free infomercial out of the deal and were as gung-ho as I've seen, willing to come back as many times as needed after I paid the initial fee.

They wanted to make the basement look like a spiderweb of 4" PVC but there was one small problem. The buyer and their agent kept telling me "they weren't sure" and the "contract is still in jeopardy" due to the radon even after the legal limit had been satisfied. I simply stated that if they weren't a solid buyer and the contract was iffy there was no way I was going to allow the ability to finish the basement for the real buyer to be jeopardized. As far as I was concerned, the contingency had been satisfied and they could do as much as they wanted when the ink was dry on the final papers. They blinked.

This sideline drama aside, they cored a couple of holes thru the floor in spots easily framed in later, plus one in the sidewall. This all connected to a sort of inline fan (looks like a flying saucer) that runs 24x7. They sealed the floor-to-wall joint 100% of the way around the perimeter with a Dow silicone caulk...this was the expensive stuff used on highway bridges and not the cheap stuff you buy at Home Depot that only sticks to your fingers. Then sealed the basement entry and exit doors with tell-tale tapes and allowed a metering device to sample for 48 hours.

The sand under the concrete excuse sounds like bs. I deal with Radon routinely, and ANY old pos house can be fitted with a mitigation system for roughly $1200. It doesn't stop radon from coming in, but it does evacuate the air when high levels are detected.. usually up to a height of at least roof level. As for sealing against it, it's a poor proposition at best... you may have some initial effect on it, but not in the long term.... plus radon levels are highly seasonal... readings tend to be higher in the winter b/c houses are closed up, ground is frozen, ect.

Personally, to get low readings and to just improve the overall air quality of a home (dust, dander, allergens, off gasing, excess moisture, ect), I would look into a good air recirc./filter system that takes care of the whole house. Any ills you have are probably from those things as opposed to radon.

bb

I felt that radon dangers were over emphasized until an incident in my wife’s family. One of her nephews built a new house some ten years ago in a small town in Georgia. Last year he had respiratory difficulties and went to a physician for diagnosis. They found massive lung cancer, and asked if he had been a heavy smoker or had exposure to known cancer causing chemicals. As he had never smoked and had been careful about substance exposure, they examined his house and found severe radon levels. They did some things to bring the radon to an acceptable level. He died from brain tumors after two brain surgeries. Made a believer out of me.

Two separate, but related issues:

With respect to Radon, as others have said, I believe the issue is cancer. If your health issues are caused by lung cancer you've got bigger issues that need to be addressed immediately. If the cause is radon, it's incredibly easy to test for the presence of it. There are a ton of firms that will come out and drop-off a canister that they'll leave in your basement for 24-48 hours then send off to a lab for testing. You'll either have elevated Radon levels or you won't. If you do have elevated levels, I wouldn't recommend screwing around with mickey-mouse solutions. There are plenty of companies that can install a proven under-slab vapor extraction system that simply vents the area under your slab to the outside with positive pressure. Anything less and you're flirting with a known carcinogen.

But with respect to other respiratory ailments...there are a ton of other indoor air quality issues (short of Radon) that could be affecting your health in more modest but real and detrimental ways. Carbon Monoxide is one. Easy-enough to get a detector (many smoke detectors have them) and keep that constantly monitoring. Might be that you only have a problem during certain conditions (like when the heat is on, or when the heat is on and the wind is from the south causing the flue to vent poorly). So constant monitoring for Carbon Monoxide would be a cheap easy step.

Mold, is also an obvious potential problem leading to respiratory issues. For that, you're really best off figuring out precisely what's going on in terms of moisture levels. Dehumidifier can help (but are expensive to run long-term). Dealing with poor drainage and downspouts can have a huge positive impact (getting ground water as far away from the foundation before it makes its' way inside). Installing a sump can help (but as others pointed out can cause more Radon intrusion if that's a concern). Another tricky factor is ventilation. In a warm moist climate, improving basement ventilation can actually cause more humidity problems. There are circumstances where venting in fresh air to the basement simply carries the moisture into your basement where it can condense on cold (air conditioned or simply cool basement surfaces like pipes) and literally condense extra moisture out of the air. So in those instance increasing ventilation can make the problem worse. A way to determine and monitor humidity levels in the basement would be a great start as would looking for standing water, moist patches, and outright mold and mildew.

In re-reading the original OP (that the house is testing positive for radon), I'd like to just emphasize that it's not a good idea to mess around with home-brew ventilation systems. While the theory is that you want to vent the radon to the outside, the precise way you do that can make a huge difference in how much exposure you get inside the house.

For instance, if you can achieve a negative pressure under the slab and collect and directly vent that negative pressure to the outside of the house, you've by-passed the Radon before it's ever entered the structure. I believe this is how most commercial Radon mitigation systems function, negative pressure under-the-slab vented to the outside.

If you just create a negative pressure in the basement (say by exhausting the basement air to the outside) you may be helping. But you may just as likely make it worse. With that negative pressure in the basement space, you're actually sucking the Radon up through cracks in the slab, through penetrations in the sump, etc. and increasing the Radon levels in the basement. Not good for anyone hanging out down there. Not good to the extent it migrates to the upper floors.

I think this is one of those instances where the cost of having an industrial hygienist or indoor air quality specialist design the system is well worth the cost.

Also, any ultimate buyer of your house may test for Radon, may see your home-brew system, and may look at the quality of the system you install in determining whether you've adequately dealt with the Radon. So penny-wise and pound-foolish to roll your own.

In my opinion.

Many counties in Oregon have such a radon problem that there's a blanket requirement for new construction in those areas to have at least passive mitigation, with a pre-routed dedicated power line to a location where an inline vent fan can be installed should the passive approach prove inadequate. The passive approach is pretty simple. It's basically a vent stack that runs from the gravel/sand area under your slab(s) up through the roof. If you've got separate basement and attached garage slabs, both areas require venting. Top of the vent stack has to be at least code-specified feet away from any openable door, window or skylight.

Radon does appear to have some carcinogenic properties.

But this thread started over 11 years ago, and at least one conversant from back then is dead. Not sure if the OP's issue is still relevant...

There are many 'ground gases' that can come up through a home as well.. not just radon. In addition to minimizing those, radon systems can also help with moisture issues in homes with crawl spaces. For those reasons alone, I recommend getting a system installed.

In the op's case, since he knew of radon levels off the charts, that's a disclosure item when it comes time to sell... may as well get a system and reap the health benefits as well as have one less hurdle down the road when it's time to sell.

As far as not being able to get one installed.. that sounds like bs.. get a second opinion.

I realize the thread is old.. but for the sake of others reading..

Over here we have to use a radon barrier system, fairly basic, heavy (2k micron) green poly somthing sheet.
Generally houses on igneous rock ( granites) release radon, ( god knows why I had to include it, I live on limestone and coal, radon wasn’t on the menu when I checked, even took a gas syringe full and stuffed it through a radiation spectrometer, nil, nada bugger all but the building inspector insisted ( there was more radiation in the concrete due to blast furnace slag in it!)
But if you have it a fan system is needed to vent outside, breathing it is well, bad, very very stage 4 bad
Forced vent system and radon barrier needed post haste.
We don’t have to pay for sample analysis over here it’s free, as is advice and you get tax off or a grant to fix it
Don’t know about USA, I have to put 2 barrier membranes in houses I’m building, a Damp proof and a radon, irrespective of area ( wales isn’t Cornwall or Scottish highlands, no granite or ignius rock)
Mark

My wife and I have had been getting more sick since we moved into our house years back and realized we are in a wet type area on granite with low water table. I bought a live meter off of amazon. I have two gray water drains btw in slab of basement. Also have wood furnace. Last spring and so far still, my radon has not dipped below an average of 8. Anything above a 4 is bad. 10 is really bad I guess. Was told a story by a water softner installer that he knew of an older couple that both died of lung cancer and neither smoked and lived in the same house for over 40yrs. Radon.

So been thinking what to do. Was hoping it would go way down in summer but didn't.