OT, somewhat, Memphis I40 bridge closure - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    ...I pay just shy of 9k a year on a house with maybe 3/4 acre of land.....:
    Ah, I'd keep quiet about that. There's folks in westchester county NY who would kill you, bury you under the basement slab, and assume your identity just to get taxes that low!

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Ah, I'd keep quiet about that. There's folks in westchester county NY who would kill you, bury you under the basement slab, and assume your identity just to get taxes that low!
    I wouldn't doubt it

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    Here's a link showing a computer animation of how they think the fracture happen in the bridge structure.

    Computer model shows how 'crack' formed on Hernando De Soto bridge

    That ant a crack, that is a hugh fracture of a beam!!!

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  6. #24
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    That bridge beam was probably cracked prior to the sub-zero temperatures we had back in February. Water seeped into the crack, froze, which probably fractured that beam, or very close to a fracture that finally broke it into. IMO. Ken

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    clearly a fatigue fracture. No physical examination required to id the failure.

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    the fracture of course comes from a crack. not much of shearlips visible. maybe there is a better pict. somewhere?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4GSR View Post
    That bridge beam was probably cracked prior to the sub-zero temperatures we had back in February. Water seeped into the crack, froze, which probably fractured that beam, or very close to a fracture that finally broke it into. IMO. Ken
    We see freezing water problems all the time up here, it just bulges out the pipe, sometimes a crack forms lengthwise.

    The pix I saw showed something different going on.

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  11. #28
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    its allarming how fracture mechanics are still in their infancy today (when did we fly to the moon?)

    so a crack was possibly identified as soon as sept. 2019. now, its perfectly normal to monitor the crack, if it was assessed as sub-critical. but apparently that assessment didnt work out. imho the ubiquitous security factor in engineering is actually a stupidity factor. we dont know much.

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    Cracks look like brittle fracture, not much tearing or crack change of direction like “ragged” you won’t know till you see the fracture face to see the “sand dune” ripples, I’d be worried where the steel originated and where else it was used, very worried myself, going to make a bet, 034 phos or there abouts just a guess
    Mark

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  14. #30
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    Seen a picture, figured 2 to 3 foot box joint and something moved.....

    Dams failures, roads falling apart, bridge failures, electrical grid issues, next it'll be a pipelines......

    After driving 2000+ miles while on vacation..................

    Honestly I just want to know what or where the monies were spent that pays for infrastructure.

    Clearly, it is not being spent where it is needed.

    I'm of the opinion ,Politicians, shouldn't be involved with public infrastructure decisions.

    Pay your fuel taxes and random audit the agency in charge of highway maintenance......

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Ah, I'd keep quiet about that. There's folks in westchester county NY who would kill you, bury you under the basement slab, and assume your identity just to get taxes that low!
    It's even cheaper around Buffalo. 100k house on 1/3 acre across the road (NY-62) is paying about 2k. Brick house and garage, too.

    Basically, the farther away from NYC, the better off you will do.

  17. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    Pay your fuel taxes and random audit the agency in charge of highway maintenance......
    One California governor commissioned a study by Stanford or UC to determine how to fix the highway department. Doesn't matter the party affiliation, could have been Jerry Brown could have been Ahnuld.

    Conclusion was, it couldn't be fixed. Better to shut it down then create a new one, the rot was so deep.

  18. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    Seen a picture, figured 2 to 3 foot box joint and something moved.....

    Dams failures, roads falling apart, bridge failures, electrical grid issues, next it'll be a pipelines......

    After driving 2000+ miles while on vacation..................

    Honestly I just want to know what or where the monies were spent that pays for infrastructure.

    Clearly, it is not being spent where it is needed.

    I'm of the opinion ,Politicians, shouldn't be involved with public infrastructure decisions.

    Pay your fuel taxes and random audit the agency in charge of highway maintenance......
    A lot of it IS being spent where needed... problem is there are a lot of things needed.

    Too many anti-socialist folks dropping taxes to "starve government", and what they end up starving is bridge repair, roads, sewer projects, etc. That sort of thing is rampant.

    The reason is that those things have "long term decay", so if challenged, which they always are by the "every tax is evil" folks, you cannot PROVE to them that the project needs to be done this year, that it absolutely cannot be kicked down the road to next year or in 3 years when the elected legislature folks may have been term-limited out, and be free of the "blame" for new taxes.

    Seen that locally, county-wide, and clearly at the state level.

    Problem is, deferred maintenance means the "fix" is more expensive for every year you let it go. Does not matter to the folks whose only goal is to take credit for tax reductions, and avoid blame for that "wasteful and premature" spending.

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  20. #34
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    it is a bolted joint, NOT riveted.

    this likely had nothing to do with seismic activity, there has been no reported activity, AND the problem is not a new one resulting from a single recent event as the rust shows.

    highly unlikely its related to water expanding upon freezing, this is not your water pipe...

    fatigue is likely, and I think clearly a failure to allow hinging , too rigid a structure. this will be an interesting forensic engineering investigation. so glad no catastrophic failure occurred

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  22. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    I'm of the opinion ,Politicians, shouldn't be involved with public infrastructure decisions.
    ......
    And who's going to pay for this, santa?

    Money:

    Citizens - > politicians -> budget process -> bridges, roads, sewers etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    And who's going to pay for this, santa?

    Money:

    Citizens - > politicians -> budget process -> bridges, roads, sewers etc.

    I have a friend who thinks governments themselves are illegitimate. They exist only to let a few with power screw the rest. The legal system is there to put a veneer on it and they can continue to exist only by violence or the threat of violence. They hire their own group of thugs (the police) to enforce it. Taxes are only extracted by the threat of imprisonment for non-compliance.

    So I ask him how he envisions things working in the absence of all that. One guy in the neighborhood is a bully who steals and rapes. Do the neighbors just go over and give him a talking to? Do they go over and beat the crap out of him as local justice for his actions? And would neighborhoods just pass the hat to collect the hundreds of thousands of dollars to make up a good road, and the millions of dollars to provide safe clean drinking water? He accuses me of having blood on my hands for paying taxes that support and pay for the government thugs

    He didn't have answers to any of that. I gave him a little bit of grief for being a leech who enjoys all the benefits but absolves himself of any responsibility. There are bridges that I'll never cross in my lifetime, but I'm fine paying taxes to provide the bridges for others, or in the possible event that I might need it myself. It's to my individual benefit that people all over the country pay taxes, elect and hire governments and do all that work providing infrastructure so if I happen to want to go somewhere I can do with minimum difficulty and danger and if I drive through Podunk I can get a drink without getting cholera.

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  25. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGTool View Post
    I have a friend who thinks governments themselves are illegitimate. They exist only to let a few with power screw the rest. The legal system is there to put a veneer on it and they can continue to exist only by violence or the threat of violence. They hire their own group of thugs (the police) to enforce it. Taxes are only extracted by the threat of imprisonment for non-compliance.

    So I ask him how he envisions things working in the absence of all that. One guy in the neighborhood is a bully who steals and rapes. Do the neighbors just go over and give him a talking to? Do they go over and beat the crap out of him as local justice for his actions? .........
    Down here in MO, the bully gets shot on main street in the middle of the day, and nobody sees anything or even hears the shot........ You can look it up, I forget what town it was.

    You know, taking personal responsibility...... Your friend would approve. But he does need to read up on government. I'm not a big fan of John Locke, but he is a place to start.

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    Interesting friend that you have. A lot of what he says makes sense in some ways. Police when formed usually replaced vigilantes. Too,many of those went into law enforcement and followed a just as new legal justice system. There are examples in the development of the country.

    Infrastructure needed is much more extensive than monies in recent bills. A dangerous thing. Elon is said to be building tunneling machines as in high speed underground rail being perhaps a goal. Electric ones which could be fantastic.

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    Part of it started at the state level
    As in not willing to do the matching funds.
    Sometimes it’s locals using fuel taxes for other things...
    Some states do a better job than others for various reasons.

    Now for that bridge in particular even if they wanted to replace that been
    It’s not something you would go down to the local steel supplier and pick off the shelf.
    And we know how long it can take engineers to scratch their collective heads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    it is a bolted joint, NOT riveted.

    this likely had nothing to do with seismic activity, there has been no reported activity, AND the problem is not a new one resulting from a single recent event as the rust shows.

    highly unlikely its related to water expanding upon freezing, this is not your water pipe...

    fatigue is likely, and I think clearly a failure to allow hinging , too rigid a structure. this will be an interesting forensic engineering investigation. so glad no catastrophic failure occurred
    I agree that the fracture is stress induced but I think you are grossly underestimating the geological aspects of the area and the bridge and the stresses that this may have the possibility of inducing in this particular bridge and bridge design.

    It is very inaccurate to say that the area has had no reported earthquakes. Just because the news network does not mention them does not mean that earthquakes are not occurring there.

    The New Madrid fault averages around 200 earthquakes per year. Now these are usually less then 2.5 but they still have a significant effect on structures and all structural designs must be seismically rated. The surface effects of earthquakes in the New Madrid Fault area differ greatly from those that occur say for example on the West Coast. The issue is that due to the overlying sediment, energy from earthquakes in the zone have the effect of turning soils into shaking jello.

    Bridges in the area in particular are susceptible to the seismic challenges.

    Article from USGS:The New Madrid Seismic Zone


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